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For me, this is the big reason to celebrate this. A duopoly in search is at least marginally better than a monopoly. If Maps is any indication, people will bitc

For me, this is the big reason to celebrate this. A duopoly in search is at least marginally better than a monopoly. If Maps is any indication, people will bitch about it for a year or so, but after 2 years, 80%+ of users will be using it. Personally, I'd love if Apple put this out there ad-free. Getting clean, honest search results was why I switched to Google to start with. Google's current platform where almost all search results above the fold are paid for is what we switched to Google to get away from. DDG is piles better in this regard now.

mantap 6y ago
Apple maps is probably a good example because outside the US it is still useless, 8 years later. I don't expect an Apple search engine to be any different.
- matthewmacleod 6y ago
  In the UK it’s broadly as effective as a mapping tool, in my experience. Better in many ways, even; Google Maps is rammed full of adverts to the point it’s actually kind of distracting. That’s not to mention the desktop app - it’s a step change in performance versus Google Maps being a sluggish browser experience.
  - mantap 6y ago
    In many parts of the world Apple maps is incapable to even give directions. I kid not. Go to e.g. Colombia and try to make directions between two places. It won't let you. It just seems that Apple doesn't invest much in maps if they don't see a profit motive. They are very much capable of competing with Google Maps but they choose to build a more limited product that only works well in certain parts of the world where there are high concentrations of iPhone users. That's fine but it's not what I want in a maps app, I want consistency.
- frio 6y ago
  Depends where you are, I guess? I'd've thought NZ's little backwater roads would be useless still, but Apple Maps has been fine for me for a long time now. I still occasionally use Google (Apple doesn't integrate cycling information where I live), but it's very very rare these days.
  - kiwijamo 6y ago
    NZ coverage is pretty decent in Apple Maps. I went to the Far North a few weeks back. Was staying with family. They just moved into a new house in a new area--maybe say 6 months to a year ago. Apple Maps had their address, whereas their street was nowhere to be found in Google Maps (just an outline which I assume they derived from satellite images?). Overall I find both have gaps--so neither have perfect coverage. As a Android owner I use Google Maps, and my husband has an Apple and uses Apple Maps. We consult with each other's maps on a regular basis since we don't really trust either!
- lutoma 6y ago
  I switched to Apple Maps a few months ago and haven't run into any issues using it in various cities in Germany. The main missing feature for me used to be public transit routing, but they added that a few updates ago and it generates pretty much identical itineraries to Google Maps.
  - dividedbyzero 6y ago
    It doesn't seem to have cycling directions in Munich, that's a pity, lots of nice spots there you can't very well get to by car or public transport
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      Is only just now adding cycling directions in limited places. One of the big places (IMO big) they've really lagged Google.
bllguo 6y ago
could you source 80%+ users using apple maps? that is simply an unbelievable number. for me, if this follows the trajectory of apple maps, i will never have any reason to consider using apple search
- simonh 6y ago
  Article about Google Maps usage on phones in the UK collapsing as soon as Apple Maps was launched - from 2013. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/26/apple-maps-europe-google https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/26/apple-map... Apple Maps used on iOS 3x as often as Google Maps, from 2015. https://9to5mac.com/2015/12/07/apple-maps-usage-numbers/ https://9to5mac.com/2015/12/07/apple-maps-usage-numbers/ I can’t source the 80% but it’s probably not far off that on iOS these days. Even so, Google Maps still has about 2/3 market share overall. It dominates on Android, and a significant number of iPhone users still use it. However for Apple Maps on iOS if it’s the default, it just has to be good enough and most people will stick with it.
  - bllguo 6y ago
    thank you, pretty impressive. sounds reasonable for them to think they can accomplish the same with search, then
lern_too_spel 6y ago
> Personally, I'd love if Apple put this out there ad-free. Apple isn't a charity.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  They aren't, but they make a decent amount of money from other things.
  - lern_too_spel 6y ago
    Exactly. They do things that make money. This removes a big source of money, adds a big cost, and worsens user experience. I'd love it if they made Apple Music and Apple TV free too.
    - bnj 6y ago
      I could see apple adding “Apple search” as a value add for a subscription service which includes music/tv...
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      Apple implements things which differentiates the iPhone and makes the experience better. If they see search as a way of doing that, they might well do it. There are a lot of services which are accessible to iPhone users which are completely free for years. The App Store, Find My iPhone, Find My Friends, the iCloud APIs (not the storage you buy for backup, but the API servers used by 3rd party developers). Maps is the obvious/ big one which is extremely expensive to offer. They also offer content services like Music, TV+, and News+... services which they pay 3rd parties to use or develop content for. These are all quite distinct from Apple most other Apple services in that they are about the content someone else creates. Search definitely doesn’t fit into the same bucket as Apple Music and Apple TV+. Apple News and the App Store itself are the only parts of Apple which get some revenue from advertising platforms. If they see search the way they see maps, it could be free. It’s possible they will push an advertising platform with search. I don’t think it’s anywhere near a slam dunk though, and it’s possible it will have a small advertising load to support some costs like the App Store does. Apple doesn’t need Search to be a profit center. They might put advertising on the platform (in fact I’d say it’s likely). But they don’t need it to look like Google’s pile of adverts with a few organic results at the bottom.

mantap 6y ago

Apple maps is probably a good example because outside the US it is still useless, 8 years later. I don't expect an Apple search engine to be any different.

matthewmacleod 6y ago
In the UK it’s broadly as effective as a mapping tool, in my experience. Better in many ways, even; Google Maps is rammed full of adverts to the point it’s actually kind of distracting. That’s not to mention the desktop app - it’s a step change in performance versus Google Maps being a sluggish browser experience.
- mantap 6y ago
  In many parts of the world Apple maps is incapable to even give directions. I kid not. Go to e.g. Colombia and try to make directions between two places. It won't let you. It just seems that Apple doesn't invest much in maps if they don't see a profit motive. They are very much capable of competing with Google Maps but they choose to build a more limited product that only works well in certain parts of the world where there are high concentrations of iPhone users. That's fine but it's not what I want in a maps app, I want consistency.
frio 6y ago
Depends where you are, I guess? I'd've thought NZ's little backwater roads would be useless still, but Apple Maps has been fine for me for a long time now. I still occasionally use Google (Apple doesn't integrate cycling information where I live), but it's very very rare these days.
- kiwijamo 6y ago
  NZ coverage is pretty decent in Apple Maps. I went to the Far North a few weeks back. Was staying with family. They just moved into a new house in a new area--maybe say 6 months to a year ago. Apple Maps had their address, whereas their street was nowhere to be found in Google Maps (just an outline which I assume they derived from satellite images?). Overall I find both have gaps--so neither have perfect coverage. As a Android owner I use Google Maps, and my husband has an Apple and uses Apple Maps. We consult with each other's maps on a regular basis since we don't really trust either!
lutoma 6y ago
I switched to Apple Maps a few months ago and haven't run into any issues using it in various cities in Germany. The main missing feature for me used to be public transit routing, but they added that a few updates ago and it generates pretty much identical itineraries to Google Maps.
- dividedbyzero 6y ago
  It doesn't seem to have cycling directions in Munich, that's a pity, lots of nice spots there you can't very well get to by car or public transport
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    Is only just now adding cycling directions in limited places. One of the big places (IMO big) they've really lagged Google.

bllguo 6y ago

could you source 80%+ users using apple maps? that is simply an unbelievable number. for me, if this follows the trajectory of apple maps, i will never have any reason to consider using apple search

simonh 6y ago
Article about Google Maps usage on phones in the UK collapsing as soon as Apple Maps was launched - from 2013. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/26/apple-maps-europe-google https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/26/apple-map... Apple Maps used on iOS 3x as often as Google Maps, from 2015. https://9to5mac.com/2015/12/07/apple-maps-usage-numbers/ https://9to5mac.com/2015/12/07/apple-maps-usage-numbers/ I can’t source the 80% but it’s probably not far off that on iOS these days. Even so, Google Maps still has about 2/3 market share overall. It dominates on Android, and a significant number of iPhone users still use it. However for Apple Maps on iOS if it’s the default, it just has to be good enough and most people will stick with it.
- bllguo 6y ago
  thank you, pretty impressive. sounds reasonable for them to think they can accomplish the same with search, then

lern_too_spel 6y ago

> Personally, I'd love if Apple put this out there ad-free. Apple isn't a charity.

saagarjha 6y ago
They aren't, but they make a decent amount of money from other things.
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  Exactly. They do things that make money. This removes a big source of money, adds a big cost, and worsens user experience. I'd love it if they made Apple Music and Apple TV free too.
  - bnj 6y ago
    I could see apple adding “Apple search” as a value add for a subscription service which includes music/tv...
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    Apple implements things which differentiates the iPhone and makes the experience better. If they see search as a way of doing that, they might well do it. There are a lot of services which are accessible to iPhone users which are completely free for years. The App Store, Find My iPhone, Find My Friends, the iCloud APIs (not the storage you buy for backup, but the API servers used by 3rd party developers). Maps is the obvious/ big one which is extremely expensive to offer. They also offer content services like Music, TV+, and News+... services which they pay 3rd parties to use or develop content for. These are all quite distinct from Apple most other Apple services in that they are about the content someone else creates. Search definitely doesn’t fit into the same bucket as Apple Music and Apple TV+. Apple News and the App Store itself are the only parts of Apple which get some revenue from advertising platforms. If they see search the way they see maps, it could be free. It’s possible they will push an advertising platform with search. I don’t think it’s anywhere near a slam dunk though, and it’s possible it will have a small advertising load to support some costs like the App Store does. Apple doesn’t need Search to be a profit center. They might put advertising on the platform (in fact I’d say it’s likely). But they don’t need it to look like Google’s pile of adverts with a few organic results at the bottom.