4 ms·

Apple apologists frequently claim the walled garden is meant to keep bad guys out, but this seems a clear cut instance of the garden's wall being used to keep p

Apple apologists frequently claim the walled garden is meant to keep bad guys out, but this seems a clear cut instance of the garden's wall being used to keep people in.

noizejoy 6y ago
The Berlin Wall was also marketed by the old DDR government as keeping the bad guys out, when in reality it was to keep their own citizens from fleeing to the west. “Mr. Cook - tear down this wall!” :-)
- wruza 6y ago
  Unless you cannot just go buy any phone or tablet you like, this may be considered an insult to all these families who were split by that wall. How on earth do these analogies cross some minds.
  - fakedang 6y ago
    Might seem a frivolous analogy, but they are essentially equivalent remarks (made by DDR and Apple) in the real world and the digital world.
  - unreal37 6y ago
    Personally not a fan of people who are offended on behalf of "others".
    - wruza 6y ago
      Then you must be not a fan of android users or store abusers who "take care for freedom" of those who are comfortable with apple.
  - noizejoy 6y ago
    This analogy crossed my mind, because my family was split by that wall. - And people on the locked in side of the wall had a legendary sense of humour[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_German_jokes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_German_jokes
  - liability 6y ago
    I'd bet there are more Apple apologists than Germans who are offended by this analogy.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Razengan 6y ago
  No, Mr. Cook, please keep the wall up! You always have the choice to move to Android/Windows and never see Apple ever again. People enter the garden of their own volition, because it's a garden compared to all the crap out there. None of this whining is about protecting the people, but rather about grabbing a slice of the billion-user pie, which Apple has historically denied other companies ever since they refused to put AT&T bloatware on the first iPhone. Can you imagine what that would have been like? People fucking loved the iPhone -because- Apple kept every other company’s bullshit off it! And people who love curated platforms will continue to love it. 1 Downvote = 1 Trillion (funny how people advocating for freedom try to bury all dissent)
  - liability 6y ago
    Classic "the walls are for your protection" gaslighting. Requiring a developer to remove a link to their website has nothing whatsoever to do with protecting users; it's a transparent attempt to pull wool over the eyes of users, to keep them in Apple's system so Apple can take a cut. Citing other supposed good acts from Apple doesn't refute this.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    Did I miss anywhere on Apple.com explanation for the users that they are a walled garden? If it’s not there, then I bet most people are not aware while buying and simply buy due to the brand.
  - ThrustVectoring 6y ago
    > You always have the choice to move to Android/Windows and never see Apple ever again. People enter the garden of their own volition iMessage has (or at least had) engineered non-interoperability with non-iPhone devices and has a significantly degraded user experience for everyone if anyone has a non-iPhone device in a group chat. There were multiple people who "freely" made the choice to switch to an Android device, only to have their friends drop them from group chats and remake it without them.
- monadic2 6y ago
  > The Berlin Wall was also marketed by the old DDR government as keeping the bad guys out, when in reality it was to keep their own citizens from fleeing to the west. It worked out pretty well in both directions actually.
judge2020 6y ago
It accomplishes both objectives quite well.
ehsankia 6y ago
The issue is that it mostly makes sense for them to recoup the cost of running the store and also make money from this massive service they run. The issue is that apps come in all shapes and sizes, and with different monetization models, but Apple's way of coming up with a fair cut for everyone just doesn't work or make any sense. And then they need to keep adding these strange restrictions and rules to try and contort every app so that their rules kinda work, but it's just such a mess.
- Polylactic_acid 6y ago
  The solution is to allow sideloading on iOS. If you don't like the app store ToS then you have the option to not use it.
FascistsAreLame 6y ago
I enjoy the garden. I wish people would just fuck off and let me have my walled garden. Please, fuck off.
- m-p-3 6y ago
  It stifles innovation and competition though.
  - Razengan 6y ago
    With all these companies wanting a slice of the billion-user pie, the iOS App Store doesn't exactly seem to be hurting for competition.
    - FascistsAreLame 6y ago
      I choose a walled garden. Now get the fuck out of my choice.
Razengan 6y ago
Nobody is prevented from leaving Apple. There's virtually no chance of running into Apple if you don't own an Apple device and choose not to use any Apple services (iTunes, Music etc.)
elmo2you 6y ago
Little more than a typical "protection" racket, only dressed up in a modern/tech jacket. Antitrust issue for sure. Despite many making a reversed-logic assumption: because a company is not legally punished (yet), shows that what they do has to be legal, history on the other hand is littered with examples of powerful entities proving that assumption utter bullshit. Involvement with anything modern regularly being a key factor, in the law only slowly catching up. The USA becoming ever more like a corrupt and tribal banana republic, sure doesn't help either. Good luck to you all, from across the pond.
Traster 6y ago
Open the App, be directed to the website, get scammed, ask Apple for your money back because an App in the Appstore scammed you. That's the problem Apple is solving. Unless transactions go through Apple they can't act as a guarantee on the App - which is what they have defined their role as.
- liability 6y ago
  > Open Safari, get scammed Get real. Apple's behaviour is profit seeking, not altruistic.

Apple apologists frequently claim the walled garden is meant to keep bad guys out, but this seems a clear cut instance of the garden's wall being used to keep people in.

noizejoy 6y ago

The Berlin Wall was also marketed by the old DDR government as keeping the bad guys out, when in reality it was to keep their own citizens from fleeing to the west. “Mr. Cook - tear down this wall!” :-)

wruza 6y ago
Unless you cannot just go buy any phone or tablet you like, this may be considered an insult to all these families who were split by that wall. How on earth do these analogies cross some minds.
- fakedang 6y ago
  Might seem a frivolous analogy, but they are essentially equivalent remarks (made by DDR and Apple) in the real world and the digital world.
- unreal37 6y ago
  Personally not a fan of people who are offended on behalf of "others".
  - wruza 6y ago
    Then you must be not a fan of android users or store abusers who "take care for freedom" of those who are comfortable with apple.
- noizejoy 6y ago
  This analogy crossed my mind, because my family was split by that wall. - And people on the locked in side of the wall had a legendary sense of humour[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_German_jokes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_German_jokes
- liability 6y ago
  I'd bet there are more Apple apologists than Germans who are offended by this analogy.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Razengan 6y ago
No, Mr. Cook, please keep the wall up! You always have the choice to move to Android/Windows and never see Apple ever again. People enter the garden of their own volition, because it's a garden compared to all the crap out there. None of this whining is about protecting the people, but rather about grabbing a slice of the billion-user pie, which Apple has historically denied other companies ever since they refused to put AT&T bloatware on the first iPhone. Can you imagine what that would have been like? People fucking loved the iPhone -because- Apple kept every other company’s bullshit off it! And people who love curated platforms will continue to love it. 1 Downvote = 1 Trillion (funny how people advocating for freedom try to bury all dissent)
- liability 6y ago
  Classic "the walls are for your protection" gaslighting. Requiring a developer to remove a link to their website has nothing whatsoever to do with protecting users; it's a transparent attempt to pull wool over the eyes of users, to keep them in Apple's system so Apple can take a cut. Citing other supposed good acts from Apple doesn't refute this.
- fsflover 6y ago
  Did I miss anywhere on Apple.com explanation for the users that they are a walled garden? If it’s not there, then I bet most people are not aware while buying and simply buy due to the brand.
- ThrustVectoring 6y ago
  > You always have the choice to move to Android/Windows and never see Apple ever again. People enter the garden of their own volition iMessage has (or at least had) engineered non-interoperability with non-iPhone devices and has a significantly degraded user experience for everyone if anyone has a non-iPhone device in a group chat. There were multiple people who "freely" made the choice to switch to an Android device, only to have their friends drop them from group chats and remake it without them.
monadic2 6y ago
> The Berlin Wall was also marketed by the old DDR government as keeping the bad guys out, when in reality it was to keep their own citizens from fleeing to the west. It worked out pretty well in both directions actually.

judge2020 6y ago

It accomplishes both objectives quite well.

ehsankia 6y ago

The issue is that it mostly makes sense for them to recoup the cost of running the store and also make money from this massive service they run. The issue is that apps come in all shapes and sizes, and with different monetization models, but Apple's way of coming up with a fair cut for everyone just doesn't work or make any sense. And then they need to keep adding these strange restrictions and rules to try and contort every app so that their rules kinda work, but it's just such a mess.

Polylactic_acid 6y ago
The solution is to allow sideloading on iOS. If you don't like the app store ToS then you have the option to not use it.

FascistsAreLame 6y ago

I enjoy the garden. I wish people would just fuck off and let me have my walled garden. Please, fuck off.

m-p-3 6y ago
It stifles innovation and competition though.
- Razengan 6y ago
  With all these companies wanting a slice of the billion-user pie, the iOS App Store doesn't exactly seem to be hurting for competition.
  - FascistsAreLame 6y ago
    I choose a walled garden. Now get the fuck out of my choice.

Razengan 6y ago

Nobody is prevented from leaving Apple. There's virtually no chance of running into Apple if you don't own an Apple device and choose not to use any Apple services (iTunes, Music etc.)

elmo2you 6y ago

Little more than a typical "protection" racket, only dressed up in a modern/tech jacket. Antitrust issue for sure. Despite many making a reversed-logic assumption: because a company is not legally punished (yet), shows that what they do has to be legal, history on the other hand is littered with examples of powerful entities proving that assumption utter bullshit. Involvement with anything modern regularly being a key factor, in the law only slowly catching up. The USA becoming ever more like a corrupt and tribal banana republic, sure doesn't help either. Good luck to you all, from across the pond.

Traster 6y ago

Open the App, be directed to the website, get scammed, ask Apple for your money back because an App in the Appstore scammed you. That's the problem Apple is solving. Unless transactions go through Apple they can't act as a guarantee on the App - which is what they have defined their role as.

liability 6y ago
> Open Safari, get scammed Get real. Apple's behaviour is profit seeking, not altruistic.