5 ms·

Goes to show how arbitrary their rules are. And how untruthful their reasoning.

AlexandrB 6y ago
I'm confused what you mean by this. It seems pretty consistent to me. Edit: This made more sense when I realized the headline was about purchasing ad placement within the app, not viewing ads.
- nprz 6y ago
  The Bandcamp app does not allow you to purchase music through the app to avoid the apple tax. OPs comment suggests that Amazon does not pay the apple tax when purchasing digital goods (music, videos, books, etc.) through their app. That seems inconsistent.
  - ArchOversight 6y ago
    You are completely unable to purchase digital goods through the Amazon app. No buying a kindle book, you'll be forced to open a web browser and do it that way. No purchasing movies, or music. Physical goods that are delivered to your home, all good. Not an issue.
baddox 6y ago
Why do you think this is arbitrary? It makes a lot of sense and is pretty obvious when you look across all apps. This tweet is trying to point out a "gotcha" when there is absolutely nothing inconsistent, unreasonable, or shocking here. Apple doesn't take a cut when you order things on the Amazon app, or when you buy stocks on Robinhood, or when you rent a car on Turo. Apple takes a cut from in-app purchases, but that is a term that Apple defines precisely. It obviously doesn't mean "any purchase in any app."
- ccktlmazeltov 6y ago
  why can't you build your own browser? Why can't you build your own online game shop?
  - troygoode 6y ago
    You can. Feel free to deploy it to your device. You just can't distribute it.
    - mike00632 6y ago
      Can you sideload onto an Apple device? Or do you mean that the device you buy isn't actually "your" device?
      - kbenson 6y ago
        > Can you sideload onto an Apple device? Not legally, in most jurisdictions. The only way to compete with Apple in the browsers space on iOS is to build your own app marketplace/store, since Apple controls distribution through the App Store. The only way to compete with Apple in the app store space is to build your own OS, since iOS only allows the Apple App Store, not competing ones. The only way to compete with Apple in the OS space is to build your own hardware (or buy from someone else and distribute), since Apple hardware locks out other operating systems from running. So the only way to compete with Apple in a space where they've decided you aren't allowed to is to replace their entire platform stack, and compete with them at the platform level. So to compete with Apple in the browser space you have to compete at the level of Google, where you make hardware, the OS, and the marketplace, and hope people move over wholesale to your hardware and OS just so they can use your browser. That's why Apple's behavior is anti-competitive. They've put walls to competition in place at every possible level to make it so the amount of money and expertise required to compete at any level is the same to competing at almost all levels.
        baddox 6y ago
        You explain in detail what it would take to compete with Apple, but you’re trying to make the point that this is impossible to do, when in fact many smartphone manufacturers have done precisely that. Apple has a very small global market share on smartphones and only around 50% in the US.
- bearcobra 6y ago
  But isn't the "gotcha" part the fact that the ads are displayed in the Facebook/Instragram apps? There isn't a real world transaction taking place like your other examples. It's more akin to being able to buy an ebook in the Kindle app.
  - ummonk 6y ago
    That’s purchasing a service (advertisement on other people’a computers and phones) not a digital good / enhancement for your own use.
  - baddox 6y ago
    The ads you buy on the Facebook app aren’t ads that you then get to see in your Facebook feed. You’re paying to have your own products/services advertised to other people.
- DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
  You’re not wrong - but there’s some ugly edge-cases when a user’s purchase pays for digital goods where Apple’s share may be considered unwarranted or just greedy: Supposing I have a B2B (not B2C) web-application + SaaS for a hypothetical professional studio photographers’s portfolio app. The app is entirely free (gratis) with self-service signup in the app for a free SaaS service tier - the app itself is only used for uploading photos to the SaaS service (I.e. it’s a utility/companion app). Now, supposing that users on the free tier can pay a one-off fee (in the iOS app or on the web) to enable the ability to set a custom colour scheme for their portfolio page (which doesn’t affect the appearance of the iOS app at all) - that doesn’t count as a purchase which enhances the app experience - it doesn’t enable/disable or change anything in the app - should that be an IAP with the 30% tax - or an Apple Pay purchase with only ~3% processing fees? Now, what if instead of selling that digital-only, app-irrelevant good in the app instead users could buy a physical “welcome pack” in the app which consists of a cheap Zazzle tote-bag with the company logo on - and as a bonus to the user enables the same custom-colour-scheme feature as a “thank you” to the user (like how Reddit and GitHub add flair to your account if you’re a paying user). Does (or should) Apple get 30% or 3% of that? If the cost of selling the tote bag is less than Apple’s 30% fee then I’ve found a loophole in IAP vs. AP.
  - AnssiH 6y ago
    > (like how Reddit and GitHub add flair to your account if you’re a paying user) That is not a thing at Reddit (I'm a paying user and there is no special flair nor any setting to add one).
    - DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
      I didn't mean the flair that appears next to your username in comment-replies, but you still get the "Reddit Premium" and "Gilding" badges on your profile's Trophy Case section. On GitHub, you get the purple "PRO" badge next to your username on your profile page and in the profile-tooltips elsewhere on GitHub.

I'm confused what you mean by this. It seems pretty consistent to me. Edit: This made more sense when I realized the headline was about purchasing ad placement within the app, not viewing ads.

nprz 6y ago
The Bandcamp app does not allow you to purchase music through the app to avoid the apple tax. OPs comment suggests that Amazon does not pay the apple tax when purchasing digital goods (music, videos, books, etc.) through their app. That seems inconsistent.
- ArchOversight 6y ago
  You are completely unable to purchase digital goods through the Amazon app. No buying a kindle book, you'll be forced to open a web browser and do it that way. No purchasing movies, or music. Physical goods that are delivered to your home, all good. Not an issue.

baddox 6y ago

Why do you think this is arbitrary? It makes a lot of sense and is pretty obvious when you look across all apps. This tweet is trying to point out a "gotcha" when there is absolutely nothing inconsistent, unreasonable, or shocking here. Apple doesn't take a cut when you order things on the Amazon app, or when you buy stocks on Robinhood, or when you rent a car on Turo. Apple takes a cut from in-app purchases, but that is a term that Apple defines precisely. It obviously doesn't mean "any purchase in any app."

ccktlmazeltov 6y ago
why can't you build your own browser? Why can't you build your own online game shop?
- troygoode 6y ago
  You can. Feel free to deploy it to your device. You just can't distribute it.
  - mike00632 6y ago
    Can you sideload onto an Apple device? Or do you mean that the device you buy isn't actually "your" device?
    - kbenson 6y ago
      > Can you sideload onto an Apple device? Not legally, in most jurisdictions. The only way to compete with Apple in the browsers space on iOS is to build your own app marketplace/store, since Apple controls distribution through the App Store. The only way to compete with Apple in the app store space is to build your own OS, since iOS only allows the Apple App Store, not competing ones. The only way to compete with Apple in the OS space is to build your own hardware (or buy from someone else and distribute), since Apple hardware locks out other operating systems from running. So the only way to compete with Apple in a space where they've decided you aren't allowed to is to replace their entire platform stack, and compete with them at the platform level. So to compete with Apple in the browser space you have to compete at the level of Google, where you make hardware, the OS, and the marketplace, and hope people move over wholesale to your hardware and OS just so they can use your browser. That's why Apple's behavior is anti-competitive. They've put walls to competition in place at every possible level to make it so the amount of money and expertise required to compete at any level is the same to competing at almost all levels.
      - baddox 6y ago
        You explain in detail what it would take to compete with Apple, but you’re trying to make the point that this is impossible to do, when in fact many smartphone manufacturers have done precisely that. Apple has a very small global market share on smartphones and only around 50% in the US.
bearcobra 6y ago
But isn't the "gotcha" part the fact that the ads are displayed in the Facebook/Instragram apps? There isn't a real world transaction taking place like your other examples. It's more akin to being able to buy an ebook in the Kindle app.
- ummonk 6y ago
  That’s purchasing a service (advertisement on other people’a computers and phones) not a digital good / enhancement for your own use.
- baddox 6y ago
  The ads you buy on the Facebook app aren’t ads that you then get to see in your Facebook feed. You’re paying to have your own products/services advertised to other people.
DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
You’re not wrong - but there’s some ugly edge-cases when a user’s purchase pays for digital goods where Apple’s share may be considered unwarranted or just greedy: Supposing I have a B2B (not B2C) web-application + SaaS for a hypothetical professional studio photographers’s portfolio app. The app is entirely free (gratis) with self-service signup in the app for a free SaaS service tier - the app itself is only used for uploading photos to the SaaS service (I.e. it’s a utility/companion app). Now, supposing that users on the free tier can pay a one-off fee (in the iOS app or on the web) to enable the ability to set a custom colour scheme for their portfolio page (which doesn’t affect the appearance of the iOS app at all) - that doesn’t count as a purchase which enhances the app experience - it doesn’t enable/disable or change anything in the app - should that be an IAP with the 30% tax - or an Apple Pay purchase with only ~3% processing fees? Now, what if instead of selling that digital-only, app-irrelevant good in the app instead users could buy a physical “welcome pack” in the app which consists of a cheap Zazzle tote-bag with the company logo on - and as a bonus to the user enables the same custom-colour-scheme feature as a “thank you” to the user (like how Reddit and GitHub add flair to your account if you’re a paying user). Does (or should) Apple get 30% or 3% of that? If the cost of selling the tote bag is less than Apple’s 30% fee then I’ve found a loophole in IAP vs. AP.
- AnssiH 6y ago
  > (like how Reddit and GitHub add flair to your account if you’re a paying user) That is not a thing at Reddit (I'm a paying user and there is no special flair nor any setting to add one).
  - DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
    I didn't mean the flair that appears next to your username in comment-replies, but you still get the "Reddit Premium" and "Gilding" badges on your profile's Trophy Case section. On GitHub, you get the purple "PRO" badge next to your username on your profile page and in the profile-tooltips elsewhere on GitHub.