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I’m afraid you will die on that hill and be replaced by a happy rural resident who was being abused by a local telco monopoly, but is now using competitively pr

I’m afraid you will die on that hill and be replaced by a happy rural resident who was being abused by a local telco monopoly, but is now using competitively priced, fast, low latency satellite internet. Using keps and scrubbing exposures in post is something we could already do decades ago. It’ll just be a new part of the workflow and eventually the space NIMBYs will quiet down.

stickfigure 6y ago
We have pitchforks and know how to use them. -- Rural Resident
- jessaustin 6y ago
  That's not the extent of our arsenal.
gorgoiler 6y ago
Spaceships and radio waves are cool and provide a unique solution. Let’s not pretend this was the one true way to get around Comcast et al’s stranglehold though. That problem could have been solved politically with regulation plus (in the countryside) ground based radio, or (in cities) with regulation of cable infrastructure such that it was separated from packet-routing and customer-service. If satellite ISPs genuinely are the solution to entrenched telcos then every streak of light in the sky is a testament to the failure to find a solution. We will look back and wish we had been able to achieve a system of sensible business regulation delivered by those elected to do so.
- ballooney 6y ago
  This should be the top comment. It’s an especially prevalent view in the USA that bad politics is a law of physics and the only solutions are madly technological. It’s not true as many other parts of the world prove. You can just have a not-insane ISP/telco regulatory system if you so choose. (see also healthcare, food/agricultural standards, water quality, online privacy... all choices).
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > It’s an especially prevalent view in the USA that bad politics is a law of physics and the only solutions are madly technological. It’s not true as many other parts of the world prove. You can just have a not-insane ISP/telco regulatory system if you so choose. (see also healthcare, food/agricultural standards, water quality, online privacy... all choices). I agree. However it's going to be a tough nut to crack because that belief is self-reinforcing. People who believe the government can't do anything right also seem to advocate policies that make the government more ineffective, which provides false confirmation of the initial belief.
  - apacheCamel 6y ago
    It is also very hard to change regulations whenever the ISPs are deep in the pockets of the same people making those regulations.
- mmaunder 6y ago
  > That problem could have been solved politically... No.
- smithza 6y ago
  Yes, you make a very strong point. It seems the highest bidders in the city were able to work with city planners to lay their cable lines... while in the rural areas (where I grew up) there were not enough customers to justify modernizing old telephone wire. The response to COVID-19 has been an expectancy on equal access to Internet and either the telco gets to capitalize on their geographic monopoly or the rural folks get short changed with 1980s dial-up or GEO satellite link.
- neckardt 6y ago
  > That problem could have been solved politically with regulation plus (in the countryside) ground based radio, or (in cities) with regulation of cable infrastructure such that it was separated from packet-routing and customer-service. My hope is that these constellations put pressure on the ground based incumbents to fix their shit. The result might be that we get cheap enough internet on the ground that the constellations become unprofitable and shut down. Might be a win-win without politics and regulation.
- stickfigure 6y ago
  I don't think you really have any idea what it's like to live somewhere truly rural. Cable and DSL companies do not serve these places. Ground-based radio requires line-of-sight to somewhere with both power and an uplink. Nevermind "third-world" countries - the vast majority of the United States, by square foot, does not have this. Rural wireless is incredibly dependent upon topography, many places will just never get it. I live one hour from SF. I have rural wireless broadband (bounced off a solar relay I installed on a hill). It's terrible, but I'm still one of the lucky ones - most of the properties we looked at when shopping did not have this access, and the only internet option was Hughes.
  - gorgoiler 6y ago
    I appreciate the counterpoint as part of this discussion, though I personally grew up on a rural fruit farm which is currently served by a wind turbine powered hilltop relay (~4Mbps long range WiFi) and copper cable DSL (~7Mbps.) The valley is 400’ deep and has 50 copper pairs coming up the side, of which 20 come to the road the house is on, and 10 remain by the time you get to the family property. 3 more are taken by properties down the way, so 7 pairs (or ~50Mbps) lay unused. It would be interesting if the copper was changed to a 100% utilization rate. The point though is there is power and copper telephone at the site. And a road! At some point, someone managed to invest in infrastructure for this house. In some sense it’s quite disheartening that the only modern equivalent to that kind of infrastructure investment is the spaceship endrun around the incumbents.
fredophile 6y ago
Most decisions, including where you live, come with some upsides and some downsides. Rural residents in developed countries made their choices. They accepted having less infrastructure than more densely populated areas in exchange for other factors. If they valued high speed internet that highly they would have made a different choice.
verytrivial 6y ago
> a happy rural resident who was being abused by a local telco monopoly So you're straight up saying that because the regulation of US telco companies is ineffective and/or corrupt, the entire planet should pay for it? That's your argument? Please tell me that's not your argument.
- spoopyskelly 6y ago
  The entire planet won't pay for it, and observations will move above the Starlink constellation to space telescopes anyway.
  - verytrivial 6y ago
    I invite you to read astrophysician's comment on this idea -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24144959 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24144959 and in fact browser his/her other comments on the topic. Summary: It is not that simple and assuming it is is not a good look!

stickfigure 6y ago

We have pitchforks and know how to use them. -- Rural Resident

jessaustin 6y ago
That's not the extent of our arsenal.

gorgoiler 6y ago

Spaceships and radio waves are cool and provide a unique solution. Let’s not pretend this was the one true way to get around Comcast et al’s stranglehold though. That problem could have been solved politically with regulation plus (in the countryside) ground based radio, or (in cities) with regulation of cable infrastructure such that it was separated from packet-routing and customer-service. If satellite ISPs genuinely are the solution to entrenched telcos then every streak of light in the sky is a testament to the failure to find a solution. We will look back and wish we had been able to achieve a system of sensible business regulation delivered by those elected to do so.

ballooney 6y ago
This should be the top comment. It’s an especially prevalent view in the USA that bad politics is a law of physics and the only solutions are madly technological. It’s not true as many other parts of the world prove. You can just have a not-insane ISP/telco regulatory system if you so choose. (see also healthcare, food/agricultural standards, water quality, online privacy... all choices).
- ardy42 6y ago
  > It’s an especially prevalent view in the USA that bad politics is a law of physics and the only solutions are madly technological. It’s not true as many other parts of the world prove. You can just have a not-insane ISP/telco regulatory system if you so choose. (see also healthcare, food/agricultural standards, water quality, online privacy... all choices). I agree. However it's going to be a tough nut to crack because that belief is self-reinforcing. People who believe the government can't do anything right also seem to advocate policies that make the government more ineffective, which provides false confirmation of the initial belief.
- apacheCamel 6y ago
  It is also very hard to change regulations whenever the ISPs are deep in the pockets of the same people making those regulations.
mmaunder 6y ago
> That problem could have been solved politically... No.
smithza 6y ago
Yes, you make a very strong point. It seems the highest bidders in the city were able to work with city planners to lay their cable lines... while in the rural areas (where I grew up) there were not enough customers to justify modernizing old telephone wire. The response to COVID-19 has been an expectancy on equal access to Internet and either the telco gets to capitalize on their geographic monopoly or the rural folks get short changed with 1980s dial-up or GEO satellite link.
neckardt 6y ago
> That problem could have been solved politically with regulation plus (in the countryside) ground based radio, or (in cities) with regulation of cable infrastructure such that it was separated from packet-routing and customer-service. My hope is that these constellations put pressure on the ground based incumbents to fix their shit. The result might be that we get cheap enough internet on the ground that the constellations become unprofitable and shut down. Might be a win-win without politics and regulation.
stickfigure 6y ago
I don't think you really have any idea what it's like to live somewhere truly rural. Cable and DSL companies do not serve these places. Ground-based radio requires line-of-sight to somewhere with both power and an uplink. Nevermind "third-world" countries - the vast majority of the United States, by square foot, does not have this. Rural wireless is incredibly dependent upon topography, many places will just never get it. I live one hour from SF. I have rural wireless broadband (bounced off a solar relay I installed on a hill). It's terrible, but I'm still one of the lucky ones - most of the properties we looked at when shopping did not have this access, and the only internet option was Hughes.
- gorgoiler 6y ago
  I appreciate the counterpoint as part of this discussion, though I personally grew up on a rural fruit farm which is currently served by a wind turbine powered hilltop relay (~4Mbps long range WiFi) and copper cable DSL (~7Mbps.) The valley is 400’ deep and has 50 copper pairs coming up the side, of which 20 come to the road the house is on, and 10 remain by the time you get to the family property. 3 more are taken by properties down the way, so 7 pairs (or ~50Mbps) lay unused. It would be interesting if the copper was changed to a 100% utilization rate. The point though is there is power and copper telephone at the site. And a road! At some point, someone managed to invest in infrastructure for this house. In some sense it’s quite disheartening that the only modern equivalent to that kind of infrastructure investment is the spaceship endrun around the incumbents.

fredophile 6y ago

Most decisions, including where you live, come with some upsides and some downsides. Rural residents in developed countries made their choices. They accepted having less infrastructure than more densely populated areas in exchange for other factors. If they valued high speed internet that highly they would have made a different choice.

verytrivial 6y ago

> a happy rural resident who was being abused by a local telco monopoly So you're straight up saying that because the regulation of US telco companies is ineffective and/or corrupt, the entire planet should pay for it? That's your argument? Please tell me that's not your argument.

spoopyskelly 6y ago
The entire planet won't pay for it, and observations will move above the Starlink constellation to space telescopes anyway.
- verytrivial 6y ago
  I invite you to read astrophysician's comment on this idea -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24144959 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24144959 and in fact browser his/her other comments on the topic. Summary: It is not that simple and assuming it is is not a good look!