5 ms·

You would definitely notice a 21ms lag while writing. Ideally you want to get below 10ms, but for physical-object-like responsiveness 1ms is the standard. See t

by jm_l 6y ago

You would definitely notice a 21ms lag while writing. Ideally you want to get below 10ms, but for physical-object-like responsiveness 1ms is the standard. See this old video from Microsoft research which demonstrates https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4

zaksoup 6y ago
I just watched the video and maybe I missed it but doesn't that mean that in order to have 1ms latency you'd have to have a screen refresh rate of 1000 frames per second? That seems like it would cause serious cost increases for displays, controllers, and graphics cards.
- zaroth 6y ago
  If it helps, you just have to refresh the (very small number of) pixels under pressure, and only at such a high right for a brief moment while they are being pressed. I wonder if you could have a separate layer which physically (chemically) responded to the pressure to make it look like the screen was drawing your line, but which only lasted for about 50ms after the pressure is removed. This chemical layer would be visible for just enough time for the real eInk pixels to actually refresh underneath the "pressure mask".
  - setr 6y ago
    You'd be stuck with essentially one "material" though -- eg color or brush or whatever -- but I could see its utility as a dedicated single-purpose device (like only intended for sketching/notes -- which I guess is mostly true of remarkable anyways)
  - roughly 6y ago
    re: setr > You'd be stuck with essentially one "material" though -- eg color or brush or whatever -- but I could see its utility as a dedicated single-purpose device (like only intended for sketching/notes -- which I guess is mostly true of remarkable anyways) I'd be curious about human perception of color matching/etc at the <50ms level - I'd suspect if you had _something_ that then became the actual color/brush, our visual system would probably just backfill to say it'd always been that color/texture.
- the_pwner224 6y ago
  The 10ms demo is almost as good and much easier to accomplish, requiring only 100 fps instead of 1000. Actually you would need more than 1k fps - suppose it takes 0.5 ms for the touch sensors and CPU processing and graphics updates; then half the time after a touch you would miss the frame and have to wait 1 ms for the next display update. To me 1ms doesn't seem worth it given the diminishing returns. Something like 5-10 would be way easier to do.
- AshamedCaptain 6y ago
  Most devices these days actually heavily extrapolate, continuing drawing the line where they think you're going to draw it even before they've actually sensed where you drawed it. The effect is rather easy to see on a Surface Pro, but it actually works pretty well.
- Zenbit_UX 6y ago
  You can cheat, Samsung was just bragging about this earlier in August when they showed off the new Note and smart pen. They used AI to predict where the user was likely to move the pen next to cut the perceived latency even further, some really clever stuff.

by jm_l 6y ago

zaksoup 6y ago

I just watched the video and maybe I missed it but doesn't that mean that in order to have 1ms latency you'd have to have a screen refresh rate of 1000 frames per second? That seems like it would cause serious cost increases for displays, controllers, and graphics cards.

zaroth 6y ago
If it helps, you just have to refresh the (very small number of) pixels under pressure, and only at such a high right for a brief moment while they are being pressed. I wonder if you could have a separate layer which physically (chemically) responded to the pressure to make it look like the screen was drawing your line, but which only lasted for about 50ms after the pressure is removed. This chemical layer would be visible for just enough time for the real eInk pixels to actually refresh underneath the "pressure mask".
- setr 6y ago
  You'd be stuck with essentially one "material" though -- eg color or brush or whatever -- but I could see its utility as a dedicated single-purpose device (like only intended for sketching/notes -- which I guess is mostly true of remarkable anyways)
- roughly 6y ago
  re: setr > You'd be stuck with essentially one "material" though -- eg color or brush or whatever -- but I could see its utility as a dedicated single-purpose device (like only intended for sketching/notes -- which I guess is mostly true of remarkable anyways) I'd be curious about human perception of color matching/etc at the <50ms level - I'd suspect if you had _something_ that then became the actual color/brush, our visual system would probably just backfill to say it'd always been that color/texture.
the_pwner224 6y ago
The 10ms demo is almost as good and much easier to accomplish, requiring only 100 fps instead of 1000. Actually you would need more than 1k fps - suppose it takes 0.5 ms for the touch sensors and CPU processing and graphics updates; then half the time after a touch you would miss the frame and have to wait 1 ms for the next display update. To me 1ms doesn't seem worth it given the diminishing returns. Something like 5-10 would be way easier to do.
AshamedCaptain 6y ago
Most devices these days actually heavily extrapolate, continuing drawing the line where they think you're going to draw it even before they've actually sensed where you drawed it. The effect is rather easy to see on a Surface Pro, but it actually works pretty well.
Zenbit_UX 6y ago
You can cheat, Samsung was just bragging about this earlier in August when they showed off the new Note and smart pen. They used AI to predict where the user was likely to move the pen next to cut the perceived latency even further, some really clever stuff.