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Would anyone here be interested in a eink phone running something like WebOS optimized for eink displays? I really feel WebOS was too early and PWAs make the ba

Would anyone here be interested in a eink phone running something like WebOS optimized for eink displays? I really feel WebOS was too early and PWAs make the barrier to entry much lower for a WebOS-like device.

criddell 6y ago
I don't think eink makes much sense on a phone especially if your phone is also your camera. Even if you aren't using it as a camera, eink displays aren't great for content that needs to be updated frequently. Aside from the slow refresh, they physically wear out relatively quickly.
- redisman 6y ago
  They do? My 7 year old kindle still seems to work just fine
  - criddell 6y ago
    Right, because the Kindle refreshes when you turn the page or use the menus. That would be a refresh every 30 seconds or so while you are using it. If you are using it as a primary display on a phone showing dynamic content, you are going to be refreshing it as quickly as you can the entire time you are using it. I think modern low end panels can maintain about 7 fps or a refresh every 0.15 seconds. That's a two order of magnitude difference.
    - Polylactic_acid 6y ago
      I have never seen or heard of an epaper display wearing out but I don't know of anyone who has tested. I'm tempted to grab one of my spare screens and just hook it up to an arduino to constantly refresh it.
      - Eric_WVGG 6y ago
        I hacked an old Kindle DX to run a screensaver, swaps out a full screen PNG about once every 30 seconds, been going for several years without a hitch.
        criddell 6y ago
        Refreshing that slowly will wear out the display in about 9 years.
      - criddell 6y ago
        The e-ink corporation has some lifespan information in their datasheets. For example, their Pearl screen is listed as having a life of 10 million refreshes. If you are updating more than once per second when in use, you will use that up in a year or two.
Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
Yes, but would prefer PostmarketOS or other pure Linux smartphone OS and there are couple of e-Ink phones out there running android apart from the YotaPhone. [1]https://www.gizmochina.com/2019/10/24/hisense-a5-with-an-e-ink-display-snapdragon-439-4000mah-battery-launched/ https://www.gizmochina.com/2019/10/24/hisense-a5-with-an-e-i... [2]https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kingrow-k1-the-healthy-phone-cares-your-eyes#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kingrow-k1-the-healthy-ph...
eugeniub 6y ago
There's a company called Yota that made YotaPhone, an Android phone with a normal screen on the front and an e-ink screen on the back. Very cool concept, but it was poorly executed. The last version was released in 2017, and the company went bankrupt in 2019.
- grishka 6y ago
  Yota the carrier is still going strong though. I would've noticed if it went bankrupt because that would've left me with no service. You meant Yota Devices.
ASalazarMX 6y ago
I would gladly trade a single-digit screen refresh for a week of battery life... and then I would trade back a couple of days of battery for an extra on-demand screen for videos :/
eddiecalzone 6y ago
I'd love to see an eInk display on the exterior of a clamshell like the Razr or Samsung Z-Flip/Fold. It'd be perfect for always-on notifications.
CrackpotGonzo 6y ago
I tried making an e-ink phone a few years back with some friends. E-ink was tough, refresh rate didn't quite work for a phone with text messaging etc. Decided to use Sharp's memory LCD, that was better but it was cost-prohibitive for a mass market phone and difficult to develop on. E-ink has become cheaper and more responsive since we gave it a shot, glad to see companies like Mudita trying to bring something like this to life. https://mudita.com/ https://mudita.com/
fancy_pantser 6y ago
There have been many attempts to find the right phone interface for eink displays. So far, I like the Light Phone 2 the best; it runs a version of Android that's totally stripped down to have a streamlined set of features that work well on eink. https://www.thelightphone.com/ https://www.thelightphone.com/
- eugeniub 6y ago
  To me the main benefit of an e-Ink display is the ability to read it for hours without eye strain. Judging by the size of the Light Phone's screen, it seems that the only benefit there is battery life.
- jrib 6y ago
  sadly no sdk
M5x7wI3CmbEem10 6y ago
I would buy a Light Phone[1] if it came with a camera. A few other features like voice memos, google translate, and wikipedia previews would be nice. https://www.thelightphone.com/ https://www.thelightphone.com/
generalizations 6y ago
Absolutely, as long as there was a maps app with traffic updates.
redisman 6y ago
Definitely. It would need a lot of custom software though. I’d be happy with maps, podcasts, email, browser plus the usual dumb phone features but I think everyone has a different set of essentials and you just need brand new UX and UI to make things legible in 2 colors and the slow refresh rate.

criddell 6y ago

I don't think eink makes much sense on a phone especially if your phone is also your camera. Even if you aren't using it as a camera, eink displays aren't great for content that needs to be updated frequently. Aside from the slow refresh, they physically wear out relatively quickly.

redisman 6y ago
They do? My 7 year old kindle still seems to work just fine
- criddell 6y ago
  Right, because the Kindle refreshes when you turn the page or use the menus. That would be a refresh every 30 seconds or so while you are using it. If you are using it as a primary display on a phone showing dynamic content, you are going to be refreshing it as quickly as you can the entire time you are using it. I think modern low end panels can maintain about 7 fps or a refresh every 0.15 seconds. That's a two order of magnitude difference.
  - Polylactic_acid 6y ago
    I have never seen or heard of an epaper display wearing out but I don't know of anyone who has tested. I'm tempted to grab one of my spare screens and just hook it up to an arduino to constantly refresh it.
    - Eric_WVGG 6y ago
      I hacked an old Kindle DX to run a screensaver, swaps out a full screen PNG about once every 30 seconds, been going for several years without a hitch.
      - criddell 6y ago
        Refreshing that slowly will wear out the display in about 9 years.
    - criddell 6y ago
      The e-ink corporation has some lifespan information in their datasheets. For example, their Pearl screen is listed as having a life of 10 million refreshes. If you are updating more than once per second when in use, you will use that up in a year or two.

Abishek_Muthian 6y ago

Yes, but would prefer PostmarketOS or other pure Linux smartphone OS and there are couple of e-Ink phones out there running android apart from the YotaPhone. [1]https://www.gizmochina.com/2019/10/24/hisense-a5-with-an-e-ink-display-snapdragon-439-4000mah-battery-launched/ https://www.gizmochina.com/2019/10/24/hisense-a5-with-an-e-i... [2]https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kingrow-k1-the-healthy-phone-cares-your-eyes#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kingrow-k1-the-healthy-ph...

eugeniub 6y ago

There's a company called Yota that made YotaPhone, an Android phone with a normal screen on the front and an e-ink screen on the back. Very cool concept, but it was poorly executed. The last version was released in 2017, and the company went bankrupt in 2019.

grishka 6y ago
Yota the carrier is still going strong though. I would've noticed if it went bankrupt because that would've left me with no service. You meant Yota Devices.

ASalazarMX 6y ago

I would gladly trade a single-digit screen refresh for a week of battery life... and then I would trade back a couple of days of battery for an extra on-demand screen for videos :/

eddiecalzone 6y ago

I'd love to see an eInk display on the exterior of a clamshell like the Razr or Samsung Z-Flip/Fold. It'd be perfect for always-on notifications.

CrackpotGonzo 6y ago

I tried making an e-ink phone a few years back with some friends. E-ink was tough, refresh rate didn't quite work for a phone with text messaging etc. Decided to use Sharp's memory LCD, that was better but it was cost-prohibitive for a mass market phone and difficult to develop on. E-ink has become cheaper and more responsive since we gave it a shot, glad to see companies like Mudita trying to bring something like this to life. https://mudita.com/ https://mudita.com/

fancy_pantser 6y ago

There have been many attempts to find the right phone interface for eink displays. So far, I like the Light Phone 2 the best; it runs a version of Android that's totally stripped down to have a streamlined set of features that work well on eink. https://www.thelightphone.com/ https://www.thelightphone.com/

eugeniub 6y ago
To me the main benefit of an e-Ink display is the ability to read it for hours without eye strain. Judging by the size of the Light Phone's screen, it seems that the only benefit there is battery life.
jrib 6y ago
sadly no sdk

M5x7wI3CmbEem10 6y ago

I would buy a Light Phone[1] if it came with a camera. A few other features like voice memos, google translate, and wikipedia previews would be nice. https://www.thelightphone.com/ https://www.thelightphone.com/

generalizations 6y ago

Absolutely, as long as there was a maps app with traffic updates.

redisman 6y ago

Definitely. It would need a lot of custom software though. I’d be happy with maps, podcasts, email, browser plus the usual dumb phone features but I think everyone has a different set of essentials and you just need brand new UX and UI to make things legible in 2 colors and the slow refresh rate.