5 ms·

Some sensible government intervention would be nice. Into Google and most of these tech giants, actually. Who ever thought that our cyberpunk future would be su

Some sensible government intervention would be nice. Into Google and most of these tech giants, actually. Who ever thought that our cyberpunk future would be such a lame and mundane dystopia.

jmnicolas 6y ago
> sensible government intervention I imagine the scene in a noisy Irish pub then total silence and everybody stares at you :)
- RedComet 6y ago
  This is the role of the government. Unfortunately, sensible intervention will only become more and more unlikely as we allow mega-corps like google to proceed unimpeded. (see: revolving door, funding of political parties, control of search results including news, etc)
nickff 6y ago
Do you think that the same governments which are against cryptography will actually look after your privacy? They'll probably require a pop-up that asks: "Is it okay if Google keeps your data, or should we just send it to the NSA?".
- RedComet 6y ago
  I'm not sure what cryptography laws have to do with anything. But in this false dichotomy, I'd much rather the NSA have the data. They have far less power and influence. Google censors dissidents and shapes public opinion each and every day.
  - nickff 6y ago
    I think that an organization's bad behavior in one area can undermine its credibility in others, particularly when the subjects are closely related (by privacy in this case).
- badRNG 6y ago
  I feel that arguments along the lines of "why should we have governments protect consumers on 'x' if they willingly do 'y'" aren't really helpful, and feel akin to whataboutism. For example, yes, I expect "The Government's OSHA" to enforce worker safety laws, even if "The Government's Police" later winds up brutalizing workers during a strike. The Government isn't this unified entity, it's more a collection of disparate organizations often embroiled in disputes with each other, each representing various stakeholders who's interests are often in contradiction with one another.
  - nickff 6y ago
    I think you're right that my point is something close to whataboutism (though not exactly whataboutism), but yours suffers from something similar to the Gell-Mann amnesia effect.[1] [1] https://www.epsilontheory.com/gell-mann-amnesia/ https://www.epsilontheory.com/gell-mann-amnesia/
    - badRNG 6y ago
      Thanks for the recommendation, interesting read. I suppose how one lands on this topic is based on how much continuity one believes there is in a "government." If a government is simply a large institution or cluster of institutions that perform many roles and have a purpose towards the same end, then the claim of "whataboutism" is simply nonsense and trusting one portion of a government and not another is at least somewhat inconsistent, and this "Gell-Mann Amnesia effect" seems clear when a person can go straight from criticizing the government's treatment of striking workers to advocating for workers protections from this same government. I think "the government" doesn't exist as a unified entity in any meaningful way aside from maybe linguistically. The government, in my view, is more a collection of organizations that often have outright antagonistic relations to each other, and interests that are fundamentally in contradiction. I don't really view a regulatory body and the NSA to be meaningfully part of the same organization (I'd say there are plenty of private businesses that are more closely "part of the NSA" than some oversight board.) Claiming that the perceived misbehavior of the NSA should prevent us from advocating for consumer protections is clearly whataboutism according to this frame. This view would make this "Gell-Mann amnesia" accusation appear incoherent, since we are talking about disparate organizations with no meaningful connection to one another.
squeezingswirls 6y ago
I don't like surveillance capitalism at all, and I hope we can stop it once and for all. I'm also terrified about other kind of developments like https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/09/china-ai-surveillance/614197/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/09/china-a... So yeah maybe a not so lame cyberpunk future.
- RedComet 6y ago
  This is exactly what I mean by lame. No modifications that let us jump over buildings. No guns hidden in our arms. No hookers with 3 boobs. Just surveillance and programming of the masses via social media.

Some sensible government intervention would be nice. Into Google and most of these tech giants, actually. Who ever thought that our cyberpunk future would be such a lame and mundane dystopia.

jmnicolas 6y ago

> sensible government intervention I imagine the scene in a noisy Irish pub then total silence and everybody stares at you :)

RedComet 6y ago
This is the role of the government. Unfortunately, sensible intervention will only become more and more unlikely as we allow mega-corps like google to proceed unimpeded. (see: revolving door, funding of political parties, control of search results including news, etc)

nickff 6y ago

Do you think that the same governments which are against cryptography will actually look after your privacy? They'll probably require a pop-up that asks: "Is it okay if Google keeps your data, or should we just send it to the NSA?".

RedComet 6y ago
I'm not sure what cryptography laws have to do with anything. But in this false dichotomy, I'd much rather the NSA have the data. They have far less power and influence. Google censors dissidents and shapes public opinion each and every day.
- nickff 6y ago
  I think that an organization's bad behavior in one area can undermine its credibility in others, particularly when the subjects are closely related (by privacy in this case).
badRNG 6y ago
I feel that arguments along the lines of "why should we have governments protect consumers on 'x' if they willingly do 'y'" aren't really helpful, and feel akin to whataboutism. For example, yes, I expect "The Government's OSHA" to enforce worker safety laws, even if "The Government's Police" later winds up brutalizing workers during a strike. The Government isn't this unified entity, it's more a collection of disparate organizations often embroiled in disputes with each other, each representing various stakeholders who's interests are often in contradiction with one another.
- nickff 6y ago
  I think you're right that my point is something close to whataboutism (though not exactly whataboutism), but yours suffers from something similar to the Gell-Mann amnesia effect.[1] [1] https://www.epsilontheory.com/gell-mann-amnesia/ https://www.epsilontheory.com/gell-mann-amnesia/
  - badRNG 6y ago
    Thanks for the recommendation, interesting read. I suppose how one lands on this topic is based on how much continuity one believes there is in a "government." If a government is simply a large institution or cluster of institutions that perform many roles and have a purpose towards the same end, then the claim of "whataboutism" is simply nonsense and trusting one portion of a government and not another is at least somewhat inconsistent, and this "Gell-Mann Amnesia effect" seems clear when a person can go straight from criticizing the government's treatment of striking workers to advocating for workers protections from this same government. I think "the government" doesn't exist as a unified entity in any meaningful way aside from maybe linguistically. The government, in my view, is more a collection of organizations that often have outright antagonistic relations to each other, and interests that are fundamentally in contradiction. I don't really view a regulatory body and the NSA to be meaningfully part of the same organization (I'd say there are plenty of private businesses that are more closely "part of the NSA" than some oversight board.) Claiming that the perceived misbehavior of the NSA should prevent us from advocating for consumer protections is clearly whataboutism according to this frame. This view would make this "Gell-Mann amnesia" accusation appear incoherent, since we are talking about disparate organizations with no meaningful connection to one another.

squeezingswirls 6y ago

I don't like surveillance capitalism at all, and I hope we can stop it once and for all. I'm also terrified about other kind of developments like https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/09/china-ai-surveillance/614197/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/09/china-a... So yeah maybe a not so lame cyberpunk future.

RedComet 6y ago
This is exactly what I mean by lame. No modifications that let us jump over buildings. No guns hidden in our arms. No hookers with 3 boobs. Just surveillance and programming of the masses via social media.