2 ms·

An interesting history note: Rust used to have an effects system which included actually being able to annotate a function as pure.

steveklabnik 6y ago
From way back in 2013, a HN thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6940624 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6940624 Sadly it looks like the wayback machine does not have a copy of the original. Does anyone know how to get one?
- est31 6y ago
  Alright this sent me down a rabbit hole. The URL is: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.rust.devel/3674/focus=3855 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.rust.devel/3674/focu... I've also seen it without the trailing /focus. The web interface of gmane.org is down, so the link is not available. Turns out though that the rust-dev mailing list archive is present on both mail.mozilla.org and mail-archive.com, so one only has to find the mail corresponding to the link. https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/ https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/ https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/ https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/ Using archive.org's "find all archived websites with this prefix" feature one can obtain a total of three archived e-mails. http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.rust.devel/* http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://article.gmane.org/gmane.... http://web.archive.org/web/20140723013539/http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.rust.devel/6778/match=dst http://web.archive.org/web/20140723013539/http://article.gma... http://web.archive.org/web/20140719142224/http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.rust.devel/9466 http://web.archive.org/web/20140719142224/http://article.gma... http://web.archive.org/web/20141225073140/http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.rust.devel/10449 http://web.archive.org/web/20141225073140/http://article.gma... Now, one searches for lines in those e-mails in on mail-archive.com and finds these corresponding links: https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg06831.html https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg06831.h... https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg09516.html https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg09516.h... https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg10494.html https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg10494.h... Observe that the differences between the two IDs are different each time, namely decreasing: 53, 50, 45 So it's not a constant difference. What to do now? Let's google the URL! It points towards this hn comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7554676 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7554676 It gives one piece of information: the e-mail was written by Graydon. Similarly, commenters in https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1t8y6g/why_rust_ditched_pure_functions/ https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1t8y6g/why_rus... mention his name, making it very likely that the e-mail was written by him. Another hint comes from the reddit thread you linked above: someone named maxcan stated they started the thread. Looking up their name plus "pure" gives only e-mails from a single thread, including an e-mail from Graydon: https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=rust-dev%40mozilla.org&q=max+cantor+pure https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=rust-dev%40mozilla.org... This is the E-Mail: https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg03913.html https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg03913.h... https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-April/003926.html https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-April/00392... Also archived it, just to be sure: http://web.archive.org/web/20200827181214/https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg03913.html http://web.archive.org/web/20200827181214/https://www.mail-a... It covers precisely the topic you mentioned and is in a thread started by maxcan. I think it's the e-mail we are looking for. To verify, the difference between the two IDs is either 239, or 58, depending on which of the two numbers in the URL point to the actual E-Mail, but 58 is more likely. The 0.7 release announcement for example has a difference of 57 and is quite close to both: https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg04653.html https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg04653.h... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5986985 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5986985
  - steveklabnik 6y ago
    Argh! you are a better sleuth than me. I was looking at that month's rust-dev archives and didn't realize the subject did not have "pure" in it, so I looked right over it. This is! Thank you so much!
- kibwen 6y ago
  Gmane was just a nice interface for reading mailing lists, in this case it was just referring to some thread on the old rust-dev mailing list, which is archived at https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/ https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/ . Sadly I can't tell exactly which thread it was, but I'm guessing it was https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-January/002903.html https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-January/002... . (Niko also once wrote a blog post which gives an overview of the old purity system: https://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2012/10/12/extending-the-definition-of-purity-in-rust/ https://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2012/10/12/ext... )
  - steveklabnik 6y ago
    I knew it was, but couldn't find a rust-dev post with "pure" in the same time-frame. Thank you! Yours may be it, but I think est has a convincing case that it was the thread this one spun out from... Thanks for that link to Niko's blog too!

steveklabnik 6y ago

From way back in 2013, a HN thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6940624 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6940624 Sadly it looks like the wayback machine does not have a copy of the original. Does anyone know how to get one?

est31 6y ago
Alright this sent me down a rabbit hole. The URL is: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.rust.devel/3674/focus=3855 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.rust.devel/3674/focu... I've also seen it without the trailing /focus. The web interface of gmane.org is down, so the link is not available. Turns out though that the rust-dev mailing list archive is present on both mail.mozilla.org and mail-archive.com, so one only has to find the mail corresponding to the link. https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/ https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/ https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/ https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/ Using archive.org's "find all archived websites with this prefix" feature one can obtain a total of three archived e-mails. http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.rust.devel/* http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://article.gmane.org/gmane.... http://web.archive.org/web/20140723013539/http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.rust.devel/6778/match=dst http://web.archive.org/web/20140723013539/http://article.gma... http://web.archive.org/web/20140719142224/http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.rust.devel/9466 http://web.archive.org/web/20140719142224/http://article.gma... http://web.archive.org/web/20141225073140/http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.rust.devel/10449 http://web.archive.org/web/20141225073140/http://article.gma... Now, one searches for lines in those e-mails in on mail-archive.com and finds these corresponding links: https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg06831.html https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg06831.h... https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg09516.html https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg09516.h... https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg10494.html https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg10494.h... Observe that the differences between the two IDs are different each time, namely decreasing: 53, 50, 45 So it's not a constant difference. What to do now? Let's google the URL! It points towards this hn comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7554676 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7554676 It gives one piece of information: the e-mail was written by Graydon. Similarly, commenters in https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1t8y6g/why_rust_ditched_pure_functions/ https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1t8y6g/why_rus... mention his name, making it very likely that the e-mail was written by him. Another hint comes from the reddit thread you linked above: someone named maxcan stated they started the thread. Looking up their name plus "pure" gives only e-mails from a single thread, including an e-mail from Graydon: https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=rust-dev%40mozilla.org&q=max+cantor+pure https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=rust-dev%40mozilla.org... This is the E-Mail: https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg03913.html https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg03913.h... https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-April/003926.html https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-April/00392... Also archived it, just to be sure: http://web.archive.org/web/20200827181214/https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg03913.html http://web.archive.org/web/20200827181214/https://www.mail-a... It covers precisely the topic you mentioned and is in a thread started by maxcan. I think it's the e-mail we are looking for. To verify, the difference between the two IDs is either 239, or 58, depending on which of the two numbers in the URL point to the actual E-Mail, but 58 is more likely. The 0.7 release announcement for example has a difference of 57 and is quite close to both: https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg04653.html https://www.mail-archive.com/rust-dev@mozilla.org/msg04653.h... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5986985 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5986985
- steveklabnik 6y ago
  Argh! you are a better sleuth than me. I was looking at that month's rust-dev archives and didn't realize the subject did not have "pure" in it, so I looked right over it. This is! Thank you so much!
kibwen 6y ago
Gmane was just a nice interface for reading mailing lists, in this case it was just referring to some thread on the old rust-dev mailing list, which is archived at https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/ https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/ . Sadly I can't tell exactly which thread it was, but I'm guessing it was https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-January/002903.html https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-January/002... . (Niko also once wrote a blog post which gives an overview of the old purity system: https://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2012/10/12/extending-the-definition-of-purity-in-rust/ https://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2012/10/12/ext... )
- steveklabnik 6y ago
  I knew it was, but couldn't find a rust-dev post with "pure" in the same time-frame. Thank you! Yours may be it, but I think est has a convincing case that it was the thread this one spun out from... Thanks for that link to Niko's blog too!