4 ms·

I couldn't agree more. I once had a really interesting conversation with an accessibility person who said in passing "accessibility is for everyone". He didn't

I couldn't agree more. I once had a really interesting conversation with an accessibility person who said in passing "accessibility is for everyone". He didn't make a big point of it, but it really stuck with me, and I'm always reminded of it when I see things like this. I've been working in the digital world since the late 90s, keep everything up to date, have a recent iPhone etc. etc. etc. and I'm stil occasionally stumped by things like how to turn on repeat in Apple Music on my phone.

andi999 6y ago
Got a new android phone (i think it was huawei), couldnt answer calls. I was thinking I as always has to press or slide the green phone icon, but actually had to move the center grey icon on the green phone icon.
- toastal 6y ago
  Speaking of Android, I used my phone as a hotspot for over a year. When I dropped my phone and the screen broke, while I waited for a replacement screen to DIY, I was able to use ADB to navigate to the assistive tools that would screen read. With that I was able to toggle on and off some settings relade to keeping the hotspot on and churning. Accessibility can help normal people in extraordinary situations too.
- pvorb 6y ago
  Oh yeah, this took me several missed calls until I figured it out. I wonder how that UI element emerged.
- Macuyiko 6y ago
  I was planning to reply to your parent comment that discoverability has always been an issue for me when I work with Apple devices. Whenever I use my wife's iPhone or Mac for a couple of minutes, I get frustrated because everything is all over the place, none of the apps work well together, and everything is hidden. Back on Android, (or Windows, or Linux), it makes sense, whereas she loses her way. Just to point out, a part of discoverability I guess is familiarity with the underlying principles the UI follows as well. To add two more points to this. I think there's one thing platforms in general got very right: simple touch controls. My one year old is discovering that sliding fingers across a screen, touching and pinching (the three basics) does stuff. Hidden menus, press-and-hold, and so on is secondary. Second, icons are something which is wrong. You need to guess their initial meaning, and translate badly in conversations, like recently with my mom: "press the rectangle with four arrows pointing out of it" (fullscreen or whatever it was).
  - contextfree 6y ago
    I appreciated the Windows Phone 7/8 and early Win10 approach to compact icons which was/is: Just have a button next to the icons that expands them to show labels when you press it. Unfortunately later redesigns to Win10 apps seemed to drift away from these patterns towards just having unlabeled icons everywhere.
    - phil294 6y ago
      Sounds interesting, do you happen to have an image of this available? I was not able to find any more information about it
      - contextfree 6y ago
        Here's a tour of the application bar control (which follows this pattern) from the Windows Phone 8 days: https://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/1e050f/application-bar-in-windows-phone-8-application/ https://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/1e050f/application-... Windows 10 introduced the navigation bar, which is essentially a vertical version of the Windows Phone application bar, just using a "three lines" icon as the "show labels" button instead of an ellipsis. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/design/controls-and-patterns/navigationview https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/design/controls... The start menu and inbox mail app use this control, for example.
  - breatheoften 6y ago
    I hate icons without text! "Here's an image, guess what is supposed to happen when you click it, also i will give you no info on hover over -- you must push me and then try to guess what i did!" (btw if there's a bug or a configuration state in the app that you or i am unaware of -- you might've pushed me at the wrong time and i might've let you do that)
    - andi999 6y ago
      Exactly. Why should e.g. a floppy disk symbol signify anything to anybody born after 2000.
teddyh 6y ago
Accessibility makes things easier not only for those who need it, but, somewhat surprisingly, also for quite a lot of people who wouldn’t normally think of themselves as even needing or wanting any help. This is usually referred to as the Curb Cut Effect, and has been extensively discussed.
saurik 6y ago
I had actually thought Apple might have removed the Repeat functionality when I upgraded iOS a few years ago; when someone else showed me how to do it--which involved scrolling the entire app to find some new hidden features--it felt more like a prank than real software :/.
specialist 6y ago
This is a very Donald Norman idea. With examples given like curb cuts for wheelchairs helping everyone, and OXO brand kitchen utensils meant for impaired hands just being better for everyone. Better is better.

andi999 6y ago

Got a new android phone (i think it was huawei), couldnt answer calls. I was thinking I as always has to press or slide the green phone icon, but actually had to move the center grey icon on the green phone icon.

toastal 6y ago
Speaking of Android, I used my phone as a hotspot for over a year. When I dropped my phone and the screen broke, while I waited for a replacement screen to DIY, I was able to use ADB to navigate to the assistive tools that would screen read. With that I was able to toggle on and off some settings relade to keeping the hotspot on and churning. Accessibility can help normal people in extraordinary situations too.
pvorb 6y ago
Oh yeah, this took me several missed calls until I figured it out. I wonder how that UI element emerged.
Macuyiko 6y ago
I was planning to reply to your parent comment that discoverability has always been an issue for me when I work with Apple devices. Whenever I use my wife's iPhone or Mac for a couple of minutes, I get frustrated because everything is all over the place, none of the apps work well together, and everything is hidden. Back on Android, (or Windows, or Linux), it makes sense, whereas she loses her way. Just to point out, a part of discoverability I guess is familiarity with the underlying principles the UI follows as well. To add two more points to this. I think there's one thing platforms in general got very right: simple touch controls. My one year old is discovering that sliding fingers across a screen, touching and pinching (the three basics) does stuff. Hidden menus, press-and-hold, and so on is secondary. Second, icons are something which is wrong. You need to guess their initial meaning, and translate badly in conversations, like recently with my mom: "press the rectangle with four arrows pointing out of it" (fullscreen or whatever it was).
- contextfree 6y ago
  I appreciated the Windows Phone 7/8 and early Win10 approach to compact icons which was/is: Just have a button next to the icons that expands them to show labels when you press it. Unfortunately later redesigns to Win10 apps seemed to drift away from these patterns towards just having unlabeled icons everywhere.
  - phil294 6y ago
    Sounds interesting, do you happen to have an image of this available? I was not able to find any more information about it
    - contextfree 6y ago
      Here's a tour of the application bar control (which follows this pattern) from the Windows Phone 8 days: https://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/1e050f/application-bar-in-windows-phone-8-application/ https://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/1e050f/application-... Windows 10 introduced the navigation bar, which is essentially a vertical version of the Windows Phone application bar, just using a "three lines" icon as the "show labels" button instead of an ellipsis. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/design/controls-and-patterns/navigationview https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/design/controls... The start menu and inbox mail app use this control, for example.
- breatheoften 6y ago
  I hate icons without text! "Here's an image, guess what is supposed to happen when you click it, also i will give you no info on hover over -- you must push me and then try to guess what i did!" (btw if there's a bug or a configuration state in the app that you or i am unaware of -- you might've pushed me at the wrong time and i might've let you do that)
  - andi999 6y ago
    Exactly. Why should e.g. a floppy disk symbol signify anything to anybody born after 2000.

teddyh 6y ago

Accessibility makes things easier not only for those who need it, but, somewhat surprisingly, also for quite a lot of people who wouldn’t normally think of themselves as even needing or wanting any help. This is usually referred to as the Curb Cut Effect, and has been extensively discussed.

saurik 6y ago

I had actually thought Apple might have removed the Repeat functionality when I upgraded iOS a few years ago; when someone else showed me how to do it--which involved scrolling the entire app to find some new hidden features--it felt more like a prank than real software :/.

specialist 6y ago

This is a very Donald Norman idea. With examples given like curb cuts for wheelchairs helping everyone, and OXO brand kitchen utensils meant for impaired hands just being better for everyone. Better is better.