3 ms·

The first rule of C is that no one masters C, but you could try anyway and still have time to master Zig in a matter of weeks, which is a rounding error. Given

The first rule of C is that no one masters C, but you could try anyway and still have time to master Zig in a matter of weeks, which is a rounding error. Given that both offer a C compatible ABI, what would serve your projects better?

cmrdporcupine 6y ago
<rant-time> I can't help but feel like in our industry C is successful (vs its 80s competition of Pascal/Modula-2, or Ada etc.) partially because of some of the same reasons that Git is successful now. Yes, it is powerful and flexible; but also in some ways unnecessarily arcane and 'dangerous' and _this gives the user a feeling of cleverness_ that is seductive to software engineers. Put another way: Most of us enjoy the mental stimulation of programming, and we enjoy the mental challenges (in general). C makes us feel clever. Witness the "obfuscated C programming contest" etc. Same thing that has led to nonsense 'brain teaser' whiteboard-algorithm tests at job interviews. IMHO it's in many cases for the benefit of the interviewer's ego, not the company or the interviewee ("gotcha! no job for you!"). </>
- jorangreef 6y ago
  "Put another way: Most of us enjoy the mental stimulation of programming, and we enjoy the mental challenges (in general). C makes us feel clever. Witness the "obfuscated C programming contest" etc." Yep, only C makes me feel stupid (but I enjoy that experience too!).
  - cmrdporcupine 6y ago
    Oh don't get me wrong, I'm a philosophy major drop-out, not a CS student. :-) I have never gotten off on clever-C, and it makes me feel stupid, which yeah, isn't awful either (humbling). Luckily my day-job has nothing to do with mental gymnastics even though I'm a software engineer at Google and work in plenty of low-level stuff. Most sensible software development bears little resemblance to the stuff on whiteboards in coding interviews etc. After 20 years of this I know the right thing is to reach for a library, and if that doesn't exist, then reach for Knuth or some other reference rather than try to write it myself from scratch.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  Given that you can "write Fortran in any language", I find this analysis unlikely. I much prefer writing Python or Lisp code than C++, but I can't do my job in Python or Lisp code, so I write C++.
dnautics 6y ago
If one does both, almost certainly learning zig will make for a better C programmer, as zig often forces you into patterns that would be best practices for a C programmer.

cmrdporcupine 6y ago

<rant-time> I can't help but feel like in our industry C is successful (vs its 80s competition of Pascal/Modula-2, or Ada etc.) partially because of some of the same reasons that Git is successful now. Yes, it is powerful and flexible; but also in some ways unnecessarily arcane and 'dangerous' and _this gives the user a feeling of cleverness_ that is seductive to software engineers. Put another way: Most of us enjoy the mental stimulation of programming, and we enjoy the mental challenges (in general). C makes us feel clever. Witness the "obfuscated C programming contest" etc. Same thing that has led to nonsense 'brain teaser' whiteboard-algorithm tests at job interviews. IMHO it's in many cases for the benefit of the interviewer's ego, not the company or the interviewee ("gotcha! no job for you!"). </>

jorangreef 6y ago
"Put another way: Most of us enjoy the mental stimulation of programming, and we enjoy the mental challenges (in general). C makes us feel clever. Witness the "obfuscated C programming contest" etc." Yep, only C makes me feel stupid (but I enjoy that experience too!).
- cmrdporcupine 6y ago
  Oh don't get me wrong, I'm a philosophy major drop-out, not a CS student. :-) I have never gotten off on clever-C, and it makes me feel stupid, which yeah, isn't awful either (humbling). Luckily my day-job has nothing to do with mental gymnastics even though I'm a software engineer at Google and work in plenty of low-level stuff. Most sensible software development bears little resemblance to the stuff on whiteboards in coding interviews etc. After 20 years of this I know the right thing is to reach for a library, and if that doesn't exist, then reach for Knuth or some other reference rather than try to write it myself from scratch.
PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
Given that you can "write Fortran in any language", I find this analysis unlikely. I much prefer writing Python or Lisp code than C++, but I can't do my job in Python or Lisp code, so I write C++.

dnautics 6y ago

If one does both, almost certainly learning zig will make for a better C programmer, as zig often forces you into patterns that would be best practices for a C programmer.