6 ms·

As to my understanding time and distance are two words for the same thing. so should we travel back towards the big bang fast enough stuff started to rewind. Tr

by kls 6y ago

As to my understanding time and distance are two words for the same thing. so should we travel back towards the big bang fast enough stuff started to rewind. Travel fast enough in the other direction and things start to fast forward. So based on this, while the universe changes, it is static in nature, think of it like a ledger where each previous state is recorded and that record is time. Distance is just what we physically take notice of, because it separates us from that reality. Now for a little back story on me, for years I was agnostic and pretty much summed up any thoughts of an afterlife as wishful thinking, but something always troubled me about the universe and what we know about it, and that is the damn thing really looks like it was designed, there are so many open questions that I had like: Why can we explain everything we know with Math, if we met another intelligent species when would most likely be able to communicate with them via math. Math seems to exist beyond humans, we seem to have discovered math and not invented it. Why when we get to sub-atomic does it really start to look like data-storage. To the extent that we now believe that the universe is 2D data-store and we experience the data thru 3D projection, not unlike the data on our computers are on a flat 2D disk, but we experience said data via projection via our monitors and speakers. Why are there programming languages embedded in nature (e.g DNA, Chemistry). So with all this I went from probably a 50/50 position, defaulting to skeptical to probably a 70/30 that the system has a design and that designer has to be intelligent and supernatural i.e exist outside of it's creation, and eternal as it is not bound by the time slices recording of the universe. I am fairly confident the system has a builder, I will refrain from using the word God as that title because it is loaded with a lot of baggage. Now the question becomes are we an ant farm or are we important to that creator. This becomes difficult to answer and I would say it's a 50/50 shot on that one. But if we are important then it leaves open the question why do we not receive communication from this creator. Which becomes really interesting because now we are in the realm of religion. Either this entity left a manuscript for life or it made us and got board. Well if it left a manuscript then it should provide some information as to why the creator is absent. TLDR from here, I am going to delve into religion, I am not going to try to save your soul but if it is not your bag just skip the rest. OK so following my trail, it seemed logical to me that if a manuscript was left the creator would have ensured that it was widely available. Which lead me to my next jump which was 3 of the major world religions base their foundation off of the same manuscript and that is the old testament or the TORA. In it it talks about the fall of man and sin, and how sin much like a virus has infected reality. To the extent that once introduce Adam and Eve saw reality very differently and the veil of heaven was placed. That they no longer had access, visibility or the capability to experience that reality. This was interesting to me, as it is a possible explanation for why we don't have any indication of this creator. It goes on to explain that now that sin is introduced, death is the only way to cleanse it, to the extent that heaven and earth will have to finally be destroyed to cleanse it of sin and end death forever. But in that a book of life will be retained, going back to the universe as a disk or data, it is plausibly that if what is written is true, that, that disk of data is that record of life. What I find interesting is the simplicity of the document which can be summed up as, people don't want a creator that has to be the supreme ruler, that the creator basically allowed them (and us) to experience what it will be like without a creator guiding us and that by doing so it will answer for all time the need for the creators guidance. That at present we are abandoned to our free will and the only way to sever the veil and experience a re-connection with heaven is via prayer. This act circumvents the free-will covenant and allows for the restoration of experiencing pieces of re-connection to the creator. As I said, I have my moments in doubt, and the religious stuff is just interesting to me but it's plausible. I certainly cannot get over the fact that everywhere in nature we find design.

aschismatic 6y ago
I agree, the fact that we can observe so much order in the universe through math, physics, and chemistry leaves me with a feeling that there must be some reason such order exists. I don't know if that necessarily translates to the existence of a builder, a creator, or a god, but I do believe it means something. And it's interesting to wonder if that something is internal or external to our universe. You mention the old testament and the Torah. What draws you to the scripts of religions that are monotheistic? What do you think about older religions that are not monotheistic? For instance, Greek mythology and the Greek pantheon is an interesting case in which there are many deities, in particular because those deities, among others, are all very human in their nature. They experience love, hubris, envy, and hatred. The full spectrum of human emotion and behavior. Much of religion is human-centric, and I think what that truly reveals is the hubris of humankind. I think that's the main reason I tend to look toward philosophy and religion more for the values they espouse and the interesting contemplation they inspire, and less for worship. In relation to our universe and any possible god or gods, I believe that humans are dust in the wind.
- kls 6y ago
  Sorry this is going to be long, as a general rule I don't discuss religion, but I think I can avoid it becoming a hot topic in this answer: I don't discount the fact that it could indeed be a race of creators, the issue then becomes if there are more than one, who created them. In my mind it would still turtle down to a singularity where all power and creation came from a single source of energy if you will. I took the time to study a handful of religions when I had my moment in doubt in agnosticism. I actually took interest in eastern ones first such a Buddhism, Taoism, and Jainism while I think they are great works for humanity to better themselves they tend to be more philosophical than religious in their nature. Many American Indian religious beliefs parallel eastern thinking like this. Hinduism would be the one exception from the eastern regions. In portions of it's teachings it leans towards strong and supernatural gods but then tends to fable and saga them. Kind of the equivalent of modern day superheros. The stories read more like that to me, as stories about gods and not as god instructing people on why they where made, why we are in the position we are in, and what to expect. This is the same reason I tended to discount, relatively dead religions such as Odinism, Greek Gods, Roman Gods as they tend to be Sagas about the gods to tell fanciful stories and moral tales that inspire people. I think they are great works, but in my mind I don't think they would be the types of work that a creator would leave as an instruction manual. The Baháʼí Faith was interesting and I really liked it, but I found it inconsistent in trying to tie all of the world regions into a single path. Funny enough I had an unrealized bias against the Bible due to the fact that I was raised in a Judeo-Christan country. Being immersed in the culture and seeing the hypocrisy had cemented in my mind that people did not practice what they preach. The problem was up until this point I had never really read the Bible (Old Testament) myself, and was taking other peoples words for what it said at face value. I was under the impression that the entire religion was about hating other people, the Muslims hate the Jews, the Christians hate the Muslims, the Jews hate the Muslims, the Christians hate everyone who is not like them. What I failed to realize that this is a cultural anomaly and not a religious one. Funny enough I was at an American football game, and watched one guy hit and hospitalize another guy with a baseball bat, literally over the fact that his team lost at the other guy was wearing the wrong jersey in the wrong place at the wrong time. It was that incident that made me face my bias and realize people will hate people in the out group no matter how trivial the division is. It's human nature. So anyways I read the old testament and was really surprised at the message, it was not a bunch of kill gay people, hate this other guy. Don't get me wrong God instructed the Jews to conquer people and other unsavory stuff, but there where justifications for doing so. What I found was a message of universal love, a promise of restoration and examples of no matter how we as humans try or barter for a different system we will fail due to human nature. Because if there is no god, a human is going to try to fill that spot and we see that all the time. Humans trying to play god. I find it interesting that originally power of god resided in the tabernacle with the people, the argument was basically this is too hard with you right here we need a human proxy that understand us. To which the Kings where appointed culminating in David the best among his people followed by his son Solomon the wisest among his people. David fell short in Killing his friend by sending him into Battle because his ulterior motive was to bed his friends wife Bathsheba. Solomon was a fool when it came to women and was led into bad decisions. Finally a messiah was promised that would be the sacrifice to take the blame of all sin (punishment for sin is death). What this set up was the final in a trifecta of lessons, as with a messiah every man became accountable for himself and was directly in charge of their spiritual path. It's interesting because the original issue at hand was that their was a rebellion of thought that basically went like this: "You don't have the right to create us, give us free will and then demand that we serve and worship you" Once a question like that is asked there is really only one way to answer it, without any doubt and that is to let those with rebellious hearts, participate in their rebellion and see the results. The part that I find interesting is that it follows a very logical path of when it fails to materialize we as humans tend to make excuses and change the goal posts. Which is exactly what happened, first there was the tabernacle for direct guidance, then there was a proxy in the kings and then every wo/man was made the king of their own destiny. The reason for this is clearly articulated that it is to show after restoration that there is only one path and to answer the question for all times. 2 of the religions that rely on that text do not believe that messiahs has come, 1 does. The books they all 3 agree on, clearly point to a coming messiah so the question becomes did Christ fulfill the prophecies as laid out in the books that they all agree on. In my personal opinion he did which is interesting because the old testament really focused on the why the things the way they are. While the teachings of Jesus focused on what is to come and how we should view the world with love. I was surprised at how strong the message of love was given my experience growing up in a "Christian" culture. Reading his parables they where directed at people exactly like that, time and time highlighting how a hooker is more righteous than the people that would not help. Or how the beggar who prays next to the priest and says lord make me an upright man like the priest here and the priest prays lord tank you for exalting me and not allowing me to be lowly like that beggar. Funny enough after reading the works I walked away going no wonder they killed him, the guy was an anarchist of the mind. I have no doubt if he where her today, he would eat dinner with gay people he would rightful tell them, it is not the way we where designed but that the world is infected and he loves them in-spite of their particular sinful nature. See I always though you, accept Christ, renounce you sin, and then you never ever sin again. So it was striking to me that his message was you are infected with sin, you are going to do bad things every day, I am going to provide cover for that, but try to love other people and use my words as a guide to try and stay on the best life path you can. If the New Testament is true, there are going to be a lot of gay people in paradise along with a lot of murderers, thieves, adulterers etc. That's the thing when people tell you what is in the bible they tell you about the sins called out. But when you actually read his words he minimizes them because he did not want his message of love to be drowned out. In reading his words for myself, I felt like the Old and the New Testament flow well into an explanation of why we are in the situation we are in, what we should do while we are in this situation and what is to come next. There are a lot of stories and parables but to me the flow of the reason is fairly simple and fairly clear. There are a lot of people with hateful agendas that blur the simple lessons that are to be learned. I accept the possibility that it could be wrong and a work of fiction, created by hopeful thinking but I also think there is enough there to have faith that it could be right. Finally I came to the conclusion no matter what, Jesus was a really awesome, kind, loving and wise man, even if he was just a crazy guy, he is a pretty good person to strive to be like. So that's how I ended up where I am at on my thoughts on god.

by kls 6y ago

aschismatic 6y ago

I agree, the fact that we can observe so much order in the universe through math, physics, and chemistry leaves me with a feeling that there must be some reason such order exists. I don't know if that necessarily translates to the existence of a builder, a creator, or a god, but I do believe it means something. And it's interesting to wonder if that something is internal or external to our universe. You mention the old testament and the Torah. What draws you to the scripts of religions that are monotheistic? What do you think about older religions that are not monotheistic? For instance, Greek mythology and the Greek pantheon is an interesting case in which there are many deities, in particular because those deities, among others, are all very human in their nature. They experience love, hubris, envy, and hatred. The full spectrum of human emotion and behavior. Much of religion is human-centric, and I think what that truly reveals is the hubris of humankind. I think that's the main reason I tend to look toward philosophy and religion more for the values they espouse and the interesting contemplation they inspire, and less for worship. In relation to our universe and any possible god or gods, I believe that humans are dust in the wind.

kls 6y ago
Sorry this is going to be long, as a general rule I don't discuss religion, but I think I can avoid it becoming a hot topic in this answer: I don't discount the fact that it could indeed be a race of creators, the issue then becomes if there are more than one, who created them. In my mind it would still turtle down to a singularity where all power and creation came from a single source of energy if you will. I took the time to study a handful of religions when I had my moment in doubt in agnosticism. I actually took interest in eastern ones first such a Buddhism, Taoism, and Jainism while I think they are great works for humanity to better themselves they tend to be more philosophical than religious in their nature. Many American Indian religious beliefs parallel eastern thinking like this. Hinduism would be the one exception from the eastern regions. In portions of it's teachings it leans towards strong and supernatural gods but then tends to fable and saga them. Kind of the equivalent of modern day superheros. The stories read more like that to me, as stories about gods and not as god instructing people on why they where made, why we are in the position we are in, and what to expect. This is the same reason I tended to discount, relatively dead religions such as Odinism, Greek Gods, Roman Gods as they tend to be Sagas about the gods to tell fanciful stories and moral tales that inspire people. I think they are great works, but in my mind I don't think they would be the types of work that a creator would leave as an instruction manual. The Baháʼí Faith was interesting and I really liked it, but I found it inconsistent in trying to tie all of the world regions into a single path. Funny enough I had an unrealized bias against the Bible due to the fact that I was raised in a Judeo-Christan country. Being immersed in the culture and seeing the hypocrisy had cemented in my mind that people did not practice what they preach. The problem was up until this point I had never really read the Bible (Old Testament) myself, and was taking other peoples words for what it said at face value. I was under the impression that the entire religion was about hating other people, the Muslims hate the Jews, the Christians hate the Muslims, the Jews hate the Muslims, the Christians hate everyone who is not like them. What I failed to realize that this is a cultural anomaly and not a religious one. Funny enough I was at an American football game, and watched one guy hit and hospitalize another guy with a baseball bat, literally over the fact that his team lost at the other guy was wearing the wrong jersey in the wrong place at the wrong time. It was that incident that made me face my bias and realize people will hate people in the out group no matter how trivial the division is. It's human nature. So anyways I read the old testament and was really surprised at the message, it was not a bunch of kill gay people, hate this other guy. Don't get me wrong God instructed the Jews to conquer people and other unsavory stuff, but there where justifications for doing so. What I found was a message of universal love, a promise of restoration and examples of no matter how we as humans try or barter for a different system we will fail due to human nature. Because if there is no god, a human is going to try to fill that spot and we see that all the time. Humans trying to play god. I find it interesting that originally power of god resided in the tabernacle with the people, the argument was basically this is too hard with you right here we need a human proxy that understand us. To which the Kings where appointed culminating in David the best among his people followed by his son Solomon the wisest among his people. David fell short in Killing his friend by sending him into Battle because his ulterior motive was to bed his friends wife Bathsheba. Solomon was a fool when it came to women and was led into bad decisions. Finally a messiah was promised that would be the sacrifice to take the blame of all sin (punishment for sin is death). What this set up was the final in a trifecta of lessons, as with a messiah every man became accountable for himself and was directly in charge of their spiritual path. It's interesting because the original issue at hand was that their was a rebellion of thought that basically went like this: "You don't have the right to create us, give us free will and then demand that we serve and worship you" Once a question like that is asked there is really only one way to answer it, without any doubt and that is to let those with rebellious hearts, participate in their rebellion and see the results. The part that I find interesting is that it follows a very logical path of when it fails to materialize we as humans tend to make excuses and change the goal posts. Which is exactly what happened, first there was the tabernacle for direct guidance, then there was a proxy in the kings and then every wo/man was made the king of their own destiny. The reason for this is clearly articulated that it is to show after restoration that there is only one path and to answer the question for all times. 2 of the religions that rely on that text do not believe that messiahs has come, 1 does. The books they all 3 agree on, clearly point to a coming messiah so the question becomes did Christ fulfill the prophecies as laid out in the books that they all agree on. In my personal opinion he did which is interesting because the old testament really focused on the why the things the way they are. While the teachings of Jesus focused on what is to come and how we should view the world with love. I was surprised at how strong the message of love was given my experience growing up in a "Christian" culture. Reading his parables they where directed at people exactly like that, time and time highlighting how a hooker is more righteous than the people that would not help. Or how the beggar who prays next to the priest and says lord make me an upright man like the priest here and the priest prays lord tank you for exalting me and not allowing me to be lowly like that beggar. Funny enough after reading the works I walked away going no wonder they killed him, the guy was an anarchist of the mind. I have no doubt if he where her today, he would eat dinner with gay people he would rightful tell them, it is not the way we where designed but that the world is infected and he loves them in-spite of their particular sinful nature. See I always though you, accept Christ, renounce you sin, and then you never ever sin again. So it was striking to me that his message was you are infected with sin, you are going to do bad things every day, I am going to provide cover for that, but try to love other people and use my words as a guide to try and stay on the best life path you can. If the New Testament is true, there are going to be a lot of gay people in paradise along with a lot of murderers, thieves, adulterers etc. That's the thing when people tell you what is in the bible they tell you about the sins called out. But when you actually read his words he minimizes them because he did not want his message of love to be drowned out. In reading his words for myself, I felt like the Old and the New Testament flow well into an explanation of why we are in the situation we are in, what we should do while we are in this situation and what is to come next. There are a lot of stories and parables but to me the flow of the reason is fairly simple and fairly clear. There are a lot of people with hateful agendas that blur the simple lessons that are to be learned. I accept the possibility that it could be wrong and a work of fiction, created by hopeful thinking but I also think there is enough there to have faith that it could be right. Finally I came to the conclusion no matter what, Jesus was a really awesome, kind, loving and wise man, even if he was just a crazy guy, he is a pretty good person to strive to be like. So that's how I ended up where I am at on my thoughts on god.