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I actually think it has more to do with the increasing size and sophistication of the touchpad in Macs. There is no need for a scroll bar when you have a touchp

by bb123 6y ago

I actually think it has more to do with the increasing size and sophistication of the touchpad in Macs. There is no need for a scroll bar when you have a touchpad you can flick (likewise for magic mice).

spideymans 6y ago
Yea on macOS, the scroll bar is less of a scroll bar, and more of a scroll indicator. There just isn’t any reason to click on the scroll bar if you have a trackpad. Notably, when you connect a traditional mouse, the scroll bar automatically becomes thicker (easier to click) and always visible, as mice users do have a reason to click/drag the scroll bar. Seems like Apple had this in mind
- formerly_proven 6y ago
  > Yea on macOS, the scroll bar is less of a scroll bar, and more of a scroll indicator. There just isn’t any reason to click on the scroll bar if you have a trackpad. I've seen so many web pages whose "fold line" just aligned so neatly with the end of my viewport that without the scrollbar being visible I would've just closed the page, being disappointed that it's just a meaningless hero page with no content. Similarly, if stuff like selection boxes align just right, you simply can't see there are more options without a scrollbar. It just looks like you only have those options that are on the screen right now. It's just plain bad UX coming from Apple.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    I love pages that have CSS to make the first section precisely the size of the viewport…and then have some sort of arrow indicating that you should scroll down to see more content.
vladvasiliu 6y ago
I don't know, not everybody has a macbook or a magic mouse. Plus even old, small, unprecise PC touchpads were enough to scroll a website. To me, it looks more related to the recent fashion of "minimal" interfaces. Like material design and ultra-skinny fonts. Could also be related to the "infinite scroll" some sites have. A scroll bar doesn't make much sense for those.
- bb123 6y ago
  Pretty much everyone on MacOS (the OS mentioned in the article) does.
pantalaimon 6y ago
But the touchpad won't help you visualize where on the page you are.
- 52-6F-62 6y ago
  I use the larger touchpad rather than a mouse when working at my desk, and I have to say that's been a non-issue—for me anyway. A slight touch/movement on the pad and I know exactly where I am (and the device really is just great...). That said, the issues outlined in this article are glaring, and I do notice them when I switch to PC/Linux and a mouse and back. It's definitely something easy to forget, though. The UX is designed to make most of the obviousness fade away and make the process an extension of your natural movements. Kind of like how a good band can take cues from each other without explicitly speaking or reading off of a sheet during a performance. But that doesn't help people who aren't adept professionals, or people operating under completely different circumstances.
  - soco 6y ago
    I've hat as programmer many times this kind of discussion, about many features. And the lesson I learned goes like this: if somebody has an issue with something, it means they have an issue with something. Telling them "I don't have the issue" does not make their issue go away. In this particular case maybe they really want to see where they are just by looking - like the commenters above just said. That's pretty natural for them, we must agree.
    - 52-6F-62 6y ago
      I'm not sure if you thought my comment was an argument or not—it wasn't. I was adding another experience to the pile.
scaryclam 6y ago
On a long page, it's really annoying and for some users not possible to flick scroll a long way. On desktop at least I can hit home or end. Removal of the scrollbar is arguably more user hostile on mobile than it is on desktop :/
jrochkind1 6y ago
The touchpad is related to mobile too though; trying to close the gap between computer interface and mobile touch interfaces. I don't think we'd have a touchpad if we didn't have mobile touchscreens first. And recall how Apple switched the "scroll direction" on the touchpad so you move your fingers in the same manner as you would directly on a screen to produce a given scroll direction.
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  Laptops had touch pads even when mobile devices had styluses.

by bb123 6y ago

spideymans 6y ago

Yea on macOS, the scroll bar is less of a scroll bar, and more of a scroll indicator. There just isn’t any reason to click on the scroll bar if you have a trackpad. Notably, when you connect a traditional mouse, the scroll bar automatically becomes thicker (easier to click) and always visible, as mice users do have a reason to click/drag the scroll bar. Seems like Apple had this in mind

formerly_proven 6y ago
> Yea on macOS, the scroll bar is less of a scroll bar, and more of a scroll indicator. There just isn’t any reason to click on the scroll bar if you have a trackpad. I've seen so many web pages whose "fold line" just aligned so neatly with the end of my viewport that without the scrollbar being visible I would've just closed the page, being disappointed that it's just a meaningless hero page with no content. Similarly, if stuff like selection boxes align just right, you simply can't see there are more options without a scrollbar. It just looks like you only have those options that are on the screen right now. It's just plain bad UX coming from Apple.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  I love pages that have CSS to make the first section precisely the size of the viewport…and then have some sort of arrow indicating that you should scroll down to see more content.

vladvasiliu 6y ago

I don't know, not everybody has a macbook or a magic mouse. Plus even old, small, unprecise PC touchpads were enough to scroll a website. To me, it looks more related to the recent fashion of "minimal" interfaces. Like material design and ultra-skinny fonts. Could also be related to the "infinite scroll" some sites have. A scroll bar doesn't make much sense for those.

bb123 6y ago
Pretty much everyone on MacOS (the OS mentioned in the article) does.

pantalaimon 6y ago

But the touchpad won't help you visualize where on the page you are.

52-6F-62 6y ago
I use the larger touchpad rather than a mouse when working at my desk, and I have to say that's been a non-issue—for me anyway. A slight touch/movement on the pad and I know exactly where I am (and the device really is just great...). That said, the issues outlined in this article are glaring, and I do notice them when I switch to PC/Linux and a mouse and back. It's definitely something easy to forget, though. The UX is designed to make most of the obviousness fade away and make the process an extension of your natural movements. Kind of like how a good band can take cues from each other without explicitly speaking or reading off of a sheet during a performance. But that doesn't help people who aren't adept professionals, or people operating under completely different circumstances.
- soco 6y ago
  I've hat as programmer many times this kind of discussion, about many features. And the lesson I learned goes like this: if somebody has an issue with something, it means they have an issue with something. Telling them "I don't have the issue" does not make their issue go away. In this particular case maybe they really want to see where they are just by looking - like the commenters above just said. That's pretty natural for them, we must agree.
  - 52-6F-62 6y ago
    I'm not sure if you thought my comment was an argument or not—it wasn't. I was adding another experience to the pile.

scaryclam 6y ago

On a long page, it's really annoying and for some users not possible to flick scroll a long way. On desktop at least I can hit home or end. Removal of the scrollbar is arguably more user hostile on mobile than it is on desktop :/

jrochkind1 6y ago

The touchpad is related to mobile too though; trying to close the gap between computer interface and mobile touch interfaces. I don't think we'd have a touchpad if we didn't have mobile touchscreens first. And recall how Apple switched the "scroll direction" on the touchpad so you move your fingers in the same manner as you would directly on a screen to produce a given scroll direction.

pseudalopex 6y ago
Laptops had touch pads even when mobile devices had styluses.