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> This is a much bigger issue than just TVs. You start somewhere > And you seem to have ignored my entire final paragraph which culminated in >> sadly, it s

> This is a much bigger issue than just TVs. You start somewhere > And you seem to have ignored my entire final paragraph which culminated in >> sadly, it seems a lot of people either don't care enough to do that instead of moaning on Twitter of Facebook and then accepting their fate. which is you accepting your fate, it seems. You suggested nothing useful, only moaned that others couldn't be bothered. In summary you built up a case of hopelessness and accused others of it. How come I often get results when I bug manufacturers? Your apathy superpower is painful to see. Thank you but that's quite enough, I prefer to get results instead.

whatisthiseven 6y ago
How do you get results, and what kind of results have you got from bugging manufacturers? Genuinely curious.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  Hard to make a list, and it's more general than just products, but taking a company to court after it screwed me over (I won which started a stream of other complainants against them once they saw it was possible), opening a machine I'd bought and finding it messed up inside and taking that back to the shop in person and telling them I wasn't going away until they fixed it (self-entitled boss was angry but they did), getting a misbehaving server from rackspace and despite their stonewalling got enough info to prove it defective so they finally replaced it (my boss was willing to live with clear performance problems out of apathy; I wasn't). There's more, some involving products rather than services but can't dig them up ATM. Helpful? Key is persistence.
rglullis 6y ago
You are getting "results" in a Sisyphean task. The one you are responding to is talking about the larger issue. Sure, do exercise your right as a consumer and do more than just complaining. If I ever bought something that started performing this badly I would return it as well. Problem is, what do you trade it for? I'd like to find a 50" TV with no smart TV features. Will your complaining and nagging on review sites going to make this a reality? As long as we keep accepting only the choices provided by the status quo all you are getting is a slightly more comfortable golden cage. This is what makes GP feel powerless.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  Sisyphus didn't get results, that was the point of his fate. I get results. OK, nitpick over, I have trouble disagreeing with you. Let's try to answer that. > what do you trade it for? Perhaps if companies had to deal with a load of complaints, losing cash at each one, they might start to care? I can tell you that companies hate being embarrassed in public so complain loudly. But otherwise, on another hn thread a while ago some guy said he'd bought, or would buy, a dumb monitor and link that up. There's 2 solutions (if the latter works). Don't complain they don't solve everything instantly, they won't. > Will your complaining and nagging on review sites going to make this a reality? You'll never know if you don't try. > This is what makes GP feel powerless. I know the feeling! But I keep fighting back and I get results. Read that as you will. Many of you US guys died to separate yourselves from the rule of us brits. Now for domestic goods you can't be bothered to rage. Doesn't seem right... Like your post though!
  - rglullis 6y ago
    > I get results. For a very low bar of "results", sure. But unless you are getting electronics with special features or without artificial restrictions imposed by the companies, I wouldn't count I managed to return a shitty TV that got shittier for another baseline shitty TV as "getting results". > Perhaps if companies had to deal with a load of complaints, losing cash at each one, they might start to care? They won't "lose cash". If consumers on aggregate started demanding more quality and better support from their companies, it would translate into increased costs and consequently increased prices. Business as a whole can sustain the occasional annoying customer like you, but only when you are the exception and not the rule. > But otherwise, on another hn thread a while ago some guy said he'd bought, or would buy, a dumb monitor and link that up. Find the price of a 40"+ monitor that can do 4k and compare with the price of TVs, see how even high-end TVs cost less than the monitors. As an exercise to the reader, correlate that with the point above. > You'll never know if you don't try. I won't know because I don't want to know. I simply refuse to buy the shitty crippled electronics in the first place. > Many of you US guys I'm not American, but I lived there long enough to understand that most people live by the "Give me convenience or give me death" mentality. I also lived there long enough to realize that money is the only thing they understand. Put these two together, and it gets really hard to expect the average consumer to work to get anything better when they have something convenient for cheap.

whatisthiseven 6y ago

How do you get results, and what kind of results have you got from bugging manufacturers? Genuinely curious.

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
Hard to make a list, and it's more general than just products, but taking a company to court after it screwed me over (I won which started a stream of other complainants against them once they saw it was possible), opening a machine I'd bought and finding it messed up inside and taking that back to the shop in person and telling them I wasn't going away until they fixed it (self-entitled boss was angry but they did), getting a misbehaving server from rackspace and despite their stonewalling got enough info to prove it defective so they finally replaced it (my boss was willing to live with clear performance problems out of apathy; I wasn't). There's more, some involving products rather than services but can't dig them up ATM. Helpful? Key is persistence.

rglullis 6y ago

You are getting "results" in a Sisyphean task. The one you are responding to is talking about the larger issue. Sure, do exercise your right as a consumer and do more than just complaining. If I ever bought something that started performing this badly I would return it as well. Problem is, what do you trade it for? I'd like to find a 50" TV with no smart TV features. Will your complaining and nagging on review sites going to make this a reality? As long as we keep accepting only the choices provided by the status quo all you are getting is a slightly more comfortable golden cage. This is what makes GP feel powerless.

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
Sisyphus didn't get results, that was the point of his fate. I get results. OK, nitpick over, I have trouble disagreeing with you. Let's try to answer that. > what do you trade it for? Perhaps if companies had to deal with a load of complaints, losing cash at each one, they might start to care? I can tell you that companies hate being embarrassed in public so complain loudly. But otherwise, on another hn thread a while ago some guy said he'd bought, or would buy, a dumb monitor and link that up. There's 2 solutions (if the latter works). Don't complain they don't solve everything instantly, they won't. > Will your complaining and nagging on review sites going to make this a reality? You'll never know if you don't try. > This is what makes GP feel powerless. I know the feeling! But I keep fighting back and I get results. Read that as you will. Many of you US guys died to separate yourselves from the rule of us brits. Now for domestic goods you can't be bothered to rage. Doesn't seem right... Like your post though!
- rglullis 6y ago
  > I get results. For a very low bar of "results", sure. But unless you are getting electronics with special features or without artificial restrictions imposed by the companies, I wouldn't count I managed to return a shitty TV that got shittier for another baseline shitty TV as "getting results". > Perhaps if companies had to deal with a load of complaints, losing cash at each one, they might start to care? They won't "lose cash". If consumers on aggregate started demanding more quality and better support from their companies, it would translate into increased costs and consequently increased prices. Business as a whole can sustain the occasional annoying customer like you, but only when you are the exception and not the rule. > But otherwise, on another hn thread a while ago some guy said he'd bought, or would buy, a dumb monitor and link that up. Find the price of a 40"+ monitor that can do 4k and compare with the price of TVs, see how even high-end TVs cost less than the monitors. As an exercise to the reader, correlate that with the point above. > You'll never know if you don't try. I won't know because I don't want to know. I simply refuse to buy the shitty crippled electronics in the first place. > Many of you US guys I'm not American, but I lived there long enough to understand that most people live by the "Give me convenience or give me death" mentality. I also lived there long enough to realize that money is the only thing they understand. Put these two together, and it gets really hard to expect the average consumer to work to get anything better when they have something convenient for cheap.