6 ms·

What type of passive income are you aiming for?

spiderfarmer 6y ago
I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket, so I am growing income streams from subscriptions, ads and affiliate partnerships. I target niches without a lot of competition. The amount of customer support is negligible, customers are happy and everything is automated, apart from invoicing.
enriquto 6y ago
Having a "passive income" is the neat way of saying social parasitism.
- andi999 6y ago
  Maybe there are better non-dehumanizing terms? Honestly, this term is basically the gist of nazi terminology 33-45, creating a mental analogy of a human group to animal pests.
  - gunnihinn 6y ago
    Calm down, Bret Stephens.
- eternalban 6y ago
  That is only true if you are not in banking. In banking, earning interest is an 'ancient virtue'.
- purerandomness 6y ago
  Don't know if you're serious or trying to be funny, but I'll bite: Around here, or in the Maker Community, "passive income" is referring to something that you put in a lot of effort into in such a way that when left alone, it keeps producing value for other people without your continuous supervision. Examples would include writing a (e)Book; creating "side dish" type products, like eCommerce plugins or themes, creating a video course, or even having an entire SaaS, and then hiring people who then slowly replace you. Interestingly, begging for money on a street corner would not fall under this definition, since it wouldn't work without you being physically there, generating the income. Did that clear things up?
  - tsimionescu 6y ago
    I believe in this case, social parasitism refers to rent seeking, essentially. So, some of your examples are indeed examples of it. For example, if you're not contributing to a SaaS anymore, you are just collecting rent from it, which, at least after a while, it is a form of social parasitism. Of course, selling a book and living off of mew sales is not.
    - hpkuarg 6y ago
      That is absolutely not what rent-seeking means. Users of the SaaS are still gaining value from it -- otherwise they wouldn't be using it anymore. It is only economic rent, and rent-seeking behavior, if the OP instead focuses their energy on (for example) making it so that it is illegal to use anything other than their SaaS application for that particular purpose.
      - jrochkind1 6y ago
        Aren't payers of literal actual "rent" on a property gaining value from it, otherwise they wouldn't be paying rent on it anymore?
        nuclearnice1 6y ago
        In the phrase “rent seeking” the word "rent" does not refer specifically to payment on a lease but rather to Adam Smith's division of incomes into profit, wage, and rent.
        jrochkind1 6y ago
        Yes, but he used the word "rent" for a reason, he didn't make up a brand new meaning for it! Paying rent to the person who legally owns a piece of land is definitely included. In general, income from being recognized by the government as owning a resource of which there is a fixed quantity, and which everyone needs (you have to live somewhere, and in Smith's time if you were a peasant you have to raise crops somewhere to survive; and the government says you have to pay someone for that land, the people the government recognizes as the owners). Land is actually the main thing Adam Smith was talking about, with other things being extensions by analogy from that. The "profiting from regulation" sense of "rent" is an extension of the plain meaning of "rent", but not mainly what Smith was actually talking about at all. Not sure if Smith in his time and place even talked about the "regulatory" aspect. Ordinary rent in it's plain meaning is what he was mainly talking about. The others are extensions by metaphor or analogy from it! Adam Smith quotes: > "The whole annual produce of the land and labour of every country, or what comes to the same thing, the whole price of that annual produce, naturally divides itself, it has already been observed, into three parts; the rent of land, the wages of labour, and the profits of stock; and constitutes a revenue to three different orders of people; to those who live by rent, to those who live by wages, and to those who live by profit. These are the three great, original, and constituent orders of every civilised society, from whose revenue that of every other order is ultimately derived." [The three divisions of income you speak of -- "the rent of land" is pretty clear, this isn't a weird meaning of 'rent' but the plain one!] > "As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for its natural produce." > "The rent of land, therefore, considered as the price paid for the use of the land, is naturally a monopoly price. It is not at all proportioned to what the landlord may have laid out upon the improvement of the land, or to what he can afford to take; but to what the farmer can afford to give." > "The landlord demands a rent even for unimproved land, and the supposed interest or profit upon the expense of improvement is generally an addition to this original rent. Those improvements, besides, are not always made by the stock of the landlord, but sometimes by that of the tenant. When the lease comes to be renewed, however, the landlord commonly demands the same augmentation of rent as if they had been all made by his own. "
- echelon 6y ago
  > Having a "passive income" is the neat way of saying social parasitism If my investments yield enough for me to live on, that's my business and my doing.
  - enriquto 6y ago
    Yes, the financial market is the main enabler of unproductive social parasitism in today's world.
    - echelon 6y ago
      So everyone should work until they die? Sounds delightful.
      - eternalban 6y ago
        There are structural parasitic aspects to modern society. The distortions that result -- 0.1% owns nearly everything -- are the issue. No one is saying every person has to labor everyday of their life. Get rid of the distortions of the current set up and you will very likely have meaningful savings when you reach a reasonable retirement age. I am not in favor of UBI. In my experience, you are never given anything for free in this universe. An entire society dependent on the "welfare state" for life support? What if you say the "wrong thing" or think the wrong thing according to the "welfare state" that is putting food on your table and paying the rent?
      - enriquto 6y ago
        No. The welfare state (and the UBI) are great social constructions! Unfortunately, they are in danger precisely by the parasitic activities of rent-seekers.
        ghaff 6y ago
        Yes. Much better that younger generations are involuntarily paying for you not to work than people are voluntarily paying for your SaaS/book/property/etc. /s
- spiderfarmer 6y ago
  Real passive income does not exist, that's why I put it between quotes. If you rent out an office building, like me, you have tenants, you have to do maintenance, you have risks. I also have a Saas with clients that I want to keep happy by improving the service proactively. I have free websites with a lot of very useful information and a tasteful amount of ads. That requires work. For mee it's stress free work as I don't have many deadlines, but that was the goal. I don't know why you think I'm a parasite. I am providing a service. If the users of that service are happy, then what is exactly is the problem? By the way, I rebuilt the office building myself. It took over 2 years. It took all my evenings and weekends, it was funded by my own money and a small loan from a bank that I paid back. I also built the office I'm sitting in right now from the ground up. I even made the desk myself. I worked hard to get where I am and I enjoyed doing it. I don't consider myself a parasite for choosing to focus on stress free work with recurring revenue. It's not easy. It's not lazy. It's a choice.
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't post flamebait to HN. It leads to flamewars. Those are tedious and nasty, and we want the opposite sort of discussion here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - enriquto 6y ago
    Ok; sorry for derailing the otherwise beautiful Knuth email thread.

I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket, so I am growing income streams from subscriptions, ads and affiliate partnerships. I target niches without a lot of competition. The amount of customer support is negligible, customers are happy and everything is automated, apart from invoicing.

enriquto 6y ago

Having a "passive income" is the neat way of saying social parasitism.

andi999 6y ago
Maybe there are better non-dehumanizing terms? Honestly, this term is basically the gist of nazi terminology 33-45, creating a mental analogy of a human group to animal pests.
- gunnihinn 6y ago
  Calm down, Bret Stephens.
eternalban 6y ago
That is only true if you are not in banking. In banking, earning interest is an 'ancient virtue'.
purerandomness 6y ago
Don't know if you're serious or trying to be funny, but I'll bite: Around here, or in the Maker Community, "passive income" is referring to something that you put in a lot of effort into in such a way that when left alone, it keeps producing value for other people without your continuous supervision. Examples would include writing a (e)Book; creating "side dish" type products, like eCommerce plugins or themes, creating a video course, or even having an entire SaaS, and then hiring people who then slowly replace you. Interestingly, begging for money on a street corner would not fall under this definition, since it wouldn't work without you being physically there, generating the income. Did that clear things up?
- tsimionescu 6y ago
  I believe in this case, social parasitism refers to rent seeking, essentially. So, some of your examples are indeed examples of it. For example, if you're not contributing to a SaaS anymore, you are just collecting rent from it, which, at least after a while, it is a form of social parasitism. Of course, selling a book and living off of mew sales is not.
  - hpkuarg 6y ago
    That is absolutely not what rent-seeking means. Users of the SaaS are still gaining value from it -- otherwise they wouldn't be using it anymore. It is only economic rent, and rent-seeking behavior, if the OP instead focuses their energy on (for example) making it so that it is illegal to use anything other than their SaaS application for that particular purpose.
    - jrochkind1 6y ago
      Aren't payers of literal actual "rent" on a property gaining value from it, otherwise they wouldn't be paying rent on it anymore?
      - nuclearnice1 6y ago
        In the phrase “rent seeking” the word "rent" does not refer specifically to payment on a lease but rather to Adam Smith's division of incomes into profit, wage, and rent.
        jrochkind1 6y ago
        Yes, but he used the word "rent" for a reason, he didn't make up a brand new meaning for it! Paying rent to the person who legally owns a piece of land is definitely included. In general, income from being recognized by the government as owning a resource of which there is a fixed quantity, and which everyone needs (you have to live somewhere, and in Smith's time if you were a peasant you have to raise crops somewhere to survive; and the government says you have to pay someone for that land, the people the government recognizes as the owners). Land is actually the main thing Adam Smith was talking about, with other things being extensions by analogy from that. The "profiting from regulation" sense of "rent" is an extension of the plain meaning of "rent", but not mainly what Smith was actually talking about at all. Not sure if Smith in his time and place even talked about the "regulatory" aspect. Ordinary rent in it's plain meaning is what he was mainly talking about. The others are extensions by metaphor or analogy from it! Adam Smith quotes: > "The whole annual produce of the land and labour of every country, or what comes to the same thing, the whole price of that annual produce, naturally divides itself, it has already been observed, into three parts; the rent of land, the wages of labour, and the profits of stock; and constitutes a revenue to three different orders of people; to those who live by rent, to those who live by wages, and to those who live by profit. These are the three great, original, and constituent orders of every civilised society, from whose revenue that of every other order is ultimately derived." [The three divisions of income you speak of -- "the rent of land" is pretty clear, this isn't a weird meaning of 'rent' but the plain one!] > "As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for its natural produce." > "The rent of land, therefore, considered as the price paid for the use of the land, is naturally a monopoly price. It is not at all proportioned to what the landlord may have laid out upon the improvement of the land, or to what he can afford to take; but to what the farmer can afford to give." > "The landlord demands a rent even for unimproved land, and the supposed interest or profit upon the expense of improvement is generally an addition to this original rent. Those improvements, besides, are not always made by the stock of the landlord, but sometimes by that of the tenant. When the lease comes to be renewed, however, the landlord commonly demands the same augmentation of rent as if they had been all made by his own. "
echelon 6y ago
> Having a "passive income" is the neat way of saying social parasitism If my investments yield enough for me to live on, that's my business and my doing.
- enriquto 6y ago
  Yes, the financial market is the main enabler of unproductive social parasitism in today's world.
  - echelon 6y ago
    So everyone should work until they die? Sounds delightful.
    - eternalban 6y ago
      There are structural parasitic aspects to modern society. The distortions that result -- 0.1% owns nearly everything -- are the issue. No one is saying every person has to labor everyday of their life. Get rid of the distortions of the current set up and you will very likely have meaningful savings when you reach a reasonable retirement age. I am not in favor of UBI. In my experience, you are never given anything for free in this universe. An entire society dependent on the "welfare state" for life support? What if you say the "wrong thing" or think the wrong thing according to the "welfare state" that is putting food on your table and paying the rent?
    - enriquto 6y ago
      No. The welfare state (and the UBI) are great social constructions! Unfortunately, they are in danger precisely by the parasitic activities of rent-seekers.
      - ghaff 6y ago
        Yes. Much better that younger generations are involuntarily paying for you not to work than people are voluntarily paying for your SaaS/book/property/etc. /s
spiderfarmer 6y ago
Real passive income does not exist, that's why I put it between quotes. If you rent out an office building, like me, you have tenants, you have to do maintenance, you have risks. I also have a Saas with clients that I want to keep happy by improving the service proactively. I have free websites with a lot of very useful information and a tasteful amount of ads. That requires work. For mee it's stress free work as I don't have many deadlines, but that was the goal. I don't know why you think I'm a parasite. I am providing a service. If the users of that service are happy, then what is exactly is the problem? By the way, I rebuilt the office building myself. It took over 2 years. It took all my evenings and weekends, it was funded by my own money and a small loan from a bank that I paid back. I also built the office I'm sitting in right now from the ground up. I even made the desk myself. I worked hard to get where I am and I enjoyed doing it. I don't consider myself a parasite for choosing to focus on stress free work with recurring revenue. It's not easy. It's not lazy. It's a choice.
dang 6y ago
Please don't post flamebait to HN. It leads to flamewars. Those are tedious and nasty, and we want the opposite sort of discussion here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- enriquto 6y ago
  Ok; sorry for derailing the otherwise beautiful Knuth email thread.