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I don’t get this argument. If you have to rely on companies’ good conscience long term you will be lost and abandoned. As such individual acts of ethical behav

by arrrg 6y ago

I don’t get this argument. If you have to rely on companies’ good conscience long term you will be lost and abandoned. As such individual acts of ethical behavior are maybe nice but not really very important or meaningful. It’s much better if companies are structured in such a way that their own self-interest aligns closely with the self-interest of society at large. Such a match will never be perfect, but if it works it’s quite nice. I would argue that Apple is at least in some ways structured so that its own self-interest regarding privacy results in positive privacy conscious outcomes for everyone. It’s of course good to know that generally speaking companies will always act in self-interest but if self-interest leads to positive outcomes then that’s much more stable and longer-lasting than some CEO acting out of the goodness of their heart. That’s fickle and can just disappear any second.

alias_neo 6y ago
To say, what you're saying, but with fewer words; with Apple you pay for your privacy with money, rather than paying with your privacy instead of money.
- j4yav 6y ago
  At least for now, until they decide that they can get your money and also further monetize the private info that only they have, which will command a premium. Hopefully that doesn't happen, but who knows.
  - alias_neo 6y ago
    Indeed. Unfortunately none of us can predict the future. For now, the best we can do is make an informed decision based on what is presently the case. One day hopefully, steps will enter the mainstream to prevent the need for trust by guaranteeing our information isn't collected and thus can't be sold.
  - bhupy 6y ago
    Which private info do they have?
- Spooky23 6y ago
  That’s one way to look at it. Apple has two sets of customers. They architected the worlds greatest casino through the AppStore, and the developers who make the machines are just as morally pure as Facebooks customers. Look at the Epic controversy, which boils down to who should get the biggest cut of real money from selling bullshit virtual funny money.
byefruit 6y ago
I think you do get this argument and we're actually saying pretty much the same thing. I'm saying people shouldn't look at this decision as "Apple has our interests in mind" but rather "in this particular case Apple's self interested is aligned with our own because of their business model".
dwild 6y ago
> I would argue that Apple is at least in some ways structured so that its own self-interest regarding privacy results in positive privacy conscious outcomes for everyone. Is it though? I thought they still had an ad network so I searched a bit to find it and how it was itself impacted by this button to find this: https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT202074 https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT202074 So they only got ads on their store, perfectly fine, and it seems to be impacted as the button does say All advertisers. It even seems to show what information they use on the store, seriously that's well beyond what I was expecting A+. And then I saw "Turn off location-based ads". Weird the first screenshot didn't have that checkbox... It's hidden in System Service, who really go there to set Advertising setting? Even more so while you got the perfect place already on the perfectly logical "Settings > Privacy > Advertising". Their self-interest regarding privacy aren't aligned at all with yours. They are just trying to make the most buck out of you and they found one more profitable than ads. For location based ads, it seems like they still believe it will bring them more cash. That means that the day ads will be back as the most profitable way for them, you'll be back to square one ;) with just much less competition. Good luck!

by arrrg 6y ago

alias_neo 6y ago

To say, what you're saying, but with fewer words; with Apple you pay for your privacy with money, rather than paying with your privacy instead of money.

j4yav 6y ago
At least for now, until they decide that they can get your money and also further monetize the private info that only they have, which will command a premium. Hopefully that doesn't happen, but who knows.
- alias_neo 6y ago
  Indeed. Unfortunately none of us can predict the future. For now, the best we can do is make an informed decision based on what is presently the case. One day hopefully, steps will enter the mainstream to prevent the need for trust by guaranteeing our information isn't collected and thus can't be sold.
- bhupy 6y ago
  Which private info do they have?
Spooky23 6y ago
That’s one way to look at it. Apple has two sets of customers. They architected the worlds greatest casino through the AppStore, and the developers who make the machines are just as morally pure as Facebooks customers. Look at the Epic controversy, which boils down to who should get the biggest cut of real money from selling bullshit virtual funny money.

byefruit 6y ago

I think you do get this argument and we're actually saying pretty much the same thing. I'm saying people shouldn't look at this decision as "Apple has our interests in mind" but rather "in this particular case Apple's self interested is aligned with our own because of their business model".

dwild 6y ago

> I would argue that Apple is at least in some ways structured so that its own self-interest regarding privacy results in positive privacy conscious outcomes for everyone. Is it though? I thought they still had an ad network so I searched a bit to find it and how it was itself impacted by this button to find this: https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT202074 https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT202074 So they only got ads on their store, perfectly fine, and it seems to be impacted as the button does say All advertisers. It even seems to show what information they use on the store, seriously that's well beyond what I was expecting A+. And then I saw "Turn off location-based ads". Weird the first screenshot didn't have that checkbox... It's hidden in System Service, who really go there to set Advertising setting? Even more so while you got the perfect place already on the perfectly logical "Settings > Privacy > Advertising". Their self-interest regarding privacy aren't aligned at all with yours. They are just trying to make the most buck out of you and they found one more profitable than ads. For location based ads, it seems like they still believe it will bring them more cash. That means that the day ads will be back as the most profitable way for them, you'll be back to square one ;) with just much less competition. Good luck!