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What I still don't understand is why European governments haven't made tit for tat measures against China in corporate law. Why do we allow free market access

by jld89 6y ago

What I still don't understand is why European governments haven't made tit for tat measures against China in corporate law. Why do we allow free market access to chinese companies when they don't? Are we crazy? Why not give the keys to our factories/companies while we are at it?

unityByFreedom 6y ago
Because we're an open society. We're certainly not handing over any keys. There is more to capitalist democracies than intellectual property.
- jld89 6y ago
  Sure we can be an open society, it's all about proportion and equality. Why should we continue to let them buy our companies freely when they haven't changed their draconian corporate laws? We have been open, we gave them the opportunity to reciprocate, they refused, then we close up shop for them. It is only fair. We are an open society, but we are not idiots, (at least I like to think so...).
yorwba 6y ago
Most of the Chinese market is already freely available to European companies, so the "tit for tat" measures tend to be small as well, just raising tariffs on products of companies receiving government subsidies or whatever.
readarticle 6y ago
Low growth prior to COVID, a weightier dependence on trade with China, and the lack of anything slightly resembling a unified foreign policy don’t leave much room to maneuver as a whole, nevermind on their own.
zorked 6y ago
The World Trade Organization allows for asymmetrical relations like that for developing countries. Same reason why we don't demand a level playing field between sheep and wolves... China is a poor, third-world country.
- Funes- 6y ago
  >China is a poor, third-world country. No. It's a very dangerous economic and military juggernaut that abuses its population as well as the environment. Let's be real.
  - kanox 6y ago
    It's also part of the "second" world by the original definition.
- jld89 6y ago
  So you put China and Burundi on the same category? Really?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - zorked 6y ago
    "I" don't put them anywhere, these categories are pre-existent. The WTO puts Burundi in a different list, of least developed countries.
    - lobotryas 6y ago
      The point is that many countries are claiming that China is abusing its designation of “developing country” and want that designation revoked. China, of course, is fighting that tooth and nail. The only reasons that China passes the sniff test is because they have the biggest population that skews averages and because they also have insane income inequality. Only CCP propagandists would try to insist that a nation with the money for nukes and aircraft carriers is still “developing” :^)
blackrock 6y ago
Do you really? Let’s see. European side: 1. Automotive: BMW, Mercedes Benz, Volkswagen, all German companies, have complete access to the Chinese automotive market. Volkswagen would be dead, because of the diesel-gate scandal, if it weren’t for the Chinese market saving their sorry asses. BMW probably makes more money from the Chinese market, than any other market worldwide. And these German companies have almost 100 years of manufacturing knowledge, that the Chinese side did not have. Is this fair? You decide. 2. Airplanes: Europe has Airbus, which has some 50% of the Chinese aviation market. This looks like a monopoly here in favor of the Europeans and Americans. Will the Europeans allow Comac to compete fairly when they get their passenger planes airworthy? That is debatable. 3. Luxury products: European brands have a captive market in China. Louis Vuitton is French. Other Italian brands, etc, they all have free access to the Chinese market. Do you see any Chinese luxury products in Europe? Zero. Is this fair? You decide. 4. Software: Europe has SAP, Siemens, also German companies. These companies can freely sell in the Chinese market. Is there a similar Chinese company that can sell into the European market? I can’t even think of one. Is this fair? You decide. Chinese side: 1. 5G: The Chinese finally create a new technology that they have full intellectual property rights to, the 5G internet, and what happens? They are now banned from every single European country. The reason? The potential for spying. LOL. How convenient of an excuse from the Europeans. 2. China has WeChat, but this appears to be irrelevant in Europe. 3. China has Alibaba, but this is also irrelevant in Europe. 4. China has mobile phone makers, but all are Android. And guess where the majority profits go to? The United States companies, Google, Qualcomm, etc. It appears that the European side makes the lions share of the profits. They earn more from branding and royalties. Whereas it seems the Chinese side makes peanuts in comparison, and they must fight for the scraps in volume, to earn a decent profit. Is that fair? You decide. This is obviously not fully conclusive, but each side plays to their own strengths.
- yorwba 6y ago
  > 1. 5G: The Chinese finally create a new technology that they have full intellectual property rights to, Chinese companies may own a significant share of 5G-related patents, but other companies (like Samsung, Ericsson, Qualcomm) weren't just idly sitting by, so the intellectual property rights are distributed piecemeal across multinational companies. https://www.iam-media.com/who-leading-5g-patent-race https://www.iam-media.com/who-leading-5g-patent-race > the 5G internet, and what happens? They are now banned from every single European country. Has any European country besides the UK even taken steps in the direction of banning Huawei or other Chinese companies? And I thought even the UK hasn't implemented a ban yet?

by jld89 6y ago

unityByFreedom 6y ago

Because we're an open society. We're certainly not handing over any keys. There is more to capitalist democracies than intellectual property.

jld89 6y ago
Sure we can be an open society, it's all about proportion and equality. Why should we continue to let them buy our companies freely when they haven't changed their draconian corporate laws? We have been open, we gave them the opportunity to reciprocate, they refused, then we close up shop for them. It is only fair. We are an open society, but we are not idiots, (at least I like to think so...).

yorwba 6y ago

Most of the Chinese market is already freely available to European companies, so the "tit for tat" measures tend to be small as well, just raising tariffs on products of companies receiving government subsidies or whatever.

readarticle 6y ago

Low growth prior to COVID, a weightier dependence on trade with China, and the lack of anything slightly resembling a unified foreign policy don’t leave much room to maneuver as a whole, nevermind on their own.

zorked 6y ago

The World Trade Organization allows for asymmetrical relations like that for developing countries. Same reason why we don't demand a level playing field between sheep and wolves... China is a poor, third-world country.

Funes- 6y ago
>China is a poor, third-world country. No. It's a very dangerous economic and military juggernaut that abuses its population as well as the environment. Let's be real.
- kanox 6y ago
  It's also part of the "second" world by the original definition.
jld89 6y ago
So you put China and Burundi on the same category? Really?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- zorked 6y ago
  "I" don't put them anywhere, these categories are pre-existent. The WTO puts Burundi in a different list, of least developed countries.
  - lobotryas 6y ago
    The point is that many countries are claiming that China is abusing its designation of “developing country” and want that designation revoked. China, of course, is fighting that tooth and nail. The only reasons that China passes the sniff test is because they have the biggest population that skews averages and because they also have insane income inequality. Only CCP propagandists would try to insist that a nation with the money for nukes and aircraft carriers is still “developing” :^)

blackrock 6y ago

Do you really? Let’s see. European side: 1. Automotive: BMW, Mercedes Benz, Volkswagen, all German companies, have complete access to the Chinese automotive market. Volkswagen would be dead, because of the diesel-gate scandal, if it weren’t for the Chinese market saving their sorry asses. BMW probably makes more money from the Chinese market, than any other market worldwide. And these German companies have almost 100 years of manufacturing knowledge, that the Chinese side did not have. Is this fair? You decide. 2. Airplanes: Europe has Airbus, which has some 50% of the Chinese aviation market. This looks like a monopoly here in favor of the Europeans and Americans. Will the Europeans allow Comac to compete fairly when they get their passenger planes airworthy? That is debatable. 3. Luxury products: European brands have a captive market in China. Louis Vuitton is French. Other Italian brands, etc, they all have free access to the Chinese market. Do you see any Chinese luxury products in Europe? Zero. Is this fair? You decide. 4. Software: Europe has SAP, Siemens, also German companies. These companies can freely sell in the Chinese market. Is there a similar Chinese company that can sell into the European market? I can’t even think of one. Is this fair? You decide. Chinese side: 1. 5G: The Chinese finally create a new technology that they have full intellectual property rights to, the 5G internet, and what happens? They are now banned from every single European country. The reason? The potential for spying. LOL. How convenient of an excuse from the Europeans. 2. China has WeChat, but this appears to be irrelevant in Europe. 3. China has Alibaba, but this is also irrelevant in Europe. 4. China has mobile phone makers, but all are Android. And guess where the majority profits go to? The United States companies, Google, Qualcomm, etc. It appears that the European side makes the lions share of the profits. They earn more from branding and royalties. Whereas it seems the Chinese side makes peanuts in comparison, and they must fight for the scraps in volume, to earn a decent profit. Is that fair? You decide. This is obviously not fully conclusive, but each side plays to their own strengths.

yorwba 6y ago
> 1. 5G: The Chinese finally create a new technology that they have full intellectual property rights to, Chinese companies may own a significant share of 5G-related patents, but other companies (like Samsung, Ericsson, Qualcomm) weren't just idly sitting by, so the intellectual property rights are distributed piecemeal across multinational companies. https://www.iam-media.com/who-leading-5g-patent-race https://www.iam-media.com/who-leading-5g-patent-race > the 5G internet, and what happens? They are now banned from every single European country. Has any European country besides the UK even taken steps in the direction of banning Huawei or other Chinese companies? And I thought even the UK hasn't implemented a ban yet?