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I hate this "As a European" generalizations as if Europe has an entirely homogeneous spread of governance. Take this for a second; Bulgaria and Denmark is both

I hate this "As a European" generalizations as if Europe has an entirely homogeneous spread of governance. Take this for a second; Bulgaria and Denmark is both Europe, or Hungary and Sweden.

fuj 6y ago
To make it worse, the "As a European" is usually followed by a very judgemental or even arrogant statement. As we, the enlightened, don't understand those hillbilly politics. What does the OP not understand? The concern of China controlling key economic and tech areas? OR that a president can block a company from operating in his country? As a European, I might not agree with the decision but I do understand the general concern behind it.
senko 6y ago
With EU being "ever-closer Union" and US being a federal country where states have a lot of local power, it's not as far-fetched as you'd think (although EU is of course nowehere near the level of integration that US is). Also, the same way "America" can mean "the US", it's not strange to see people colloquially refer to the EU countries as "Europe", though both are, technically, not correct.
okamiueru 6y ago
You are absolutely right in that it gives the wrong impression of "everyone thinks the same". That said, I don't think that is the intention, ever, when it's used. There are certain aspects in how things work in the US that are so far disconnected to how it is, in most of Europe, that is baffling. By an large, this difference applies to most of Europe. It is of course an oversimplification. But, here are a few boggling things: Politics (in particular, money in politics that looks like plain bribery, or political and misleading ads everywhere), for profit private prisons, no maternity leave, unpaid internships, healthcare related personal bankruptcies. The list goes on and on, and, since this is a by and large difference to Europe, you tend to see the "As a European" phrase.
- askl56 6y ago
  I strongly disagree. There is nobody in Eastern Europe (or Western Europe if they know enough about politics) who is boggled by money in politics or misleading ads. There are countries in Europe that have had Gulags in the last 50 years, I doubt they are boggled by the idea of a for-profit prison system. As a European who has lived in America and now in SEA, this "as a European" is used by people who generally don't understand the variety of different life experience of people in Europe.
  - okamiueru 6y ago
    I wonder if you're not going a git hard on the "strongly disagree". The main issue I think is that "as a European" tends to excludes eastern Europe in its generalization. As such, I agree that it isn't very correct. It would probably make more sense if it was "as a citizen of the more politically homogeneous Western Europe, in particular Portugal, Spain, France, Ireland, UK, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Italy, Iceland, Austria... and to some extend also but not so much for all topics and cases the other countries in Europe"... but that is a bit too terse. I think it also tries to convey how different "a very large number of countries and millions of people" views X. It will always be a generalization. So, if you consider "as a European" to be "Western Europe", it very often applies, overall. It is a generalization, after all. And, as far as generalizations go, I honestly think "as a European", or... maybe better "as a Western European", if you will, to be very useful way to express a very complex connection, and difference in opinion or... zeitgeist. For example, it helps illuminate the dichotomy in the reaction to private philanthropy in the US that should have never been necessary. For Americans, it is accepted that it is a heart warming act, while (for a European), it more often comes across as dystopian. As a final note, I'm wondering if you might not want to see that argument I'm presenting. Because you point out how my case with ads and money in politics isn't that uncommon in western Europe. Let's be clear, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, or that Europe is problem free or perfect, or anything like that, but the problem and perception of it, is worlds apart. Attack ads come across as a joke that have no place in political discourse, yet, it is everywhere in the US. But then again, maybe you are right. It is after all pretending to include the "shared voice" of people who do might very well not share that voice. It can be disingenuous. I wonder if making it more specific will still open up for smaller subsets that disagree. If you say "as a Norwegian", you are still implying agreement from others that will very much disagree.
justusw 6y ago
Agreed. It’s not any different from saying “as a westerner...”. Europe is a continent, not a political union.
- squiggleblaz 6y ago
  Europe isn't a continent. It's the bit of Asia where white people live. India has a much better claim to being a continent than Europe does.
  - okamiueru 6y ago
    This must be the weirdest gatekeeping comment I've seen in a while. Also, who is claiming what now? Words and conventions are a thing, so it seems awfully unproductive to say something that is, isn't.
est31 6y ago
Europeans have one thing in common though: they aren't americans, disregarding the minority of stationed soldiers, diplomats, expats, immigrants, etc. "As an European" is a good way to state that you are indeed not an american. The general assumption on places like hn is that you are one. It's visible in the topic choices. As an example, the team viewer IPO, even though it's been a multibillion IPO, didn't get into hn while tons of SV tech startups do.
- unishark 6y ago
  There's obviously more implied by that statement though. The poster is making a criticism that their identity is apparently meant to support. When it comes to trending topics, as an insomniac I commonly find myself posting at times where Europeans or Asians dominate. Even then, US stories often dominate because so many non-americans are apparently just as obsessed with FAANG/Trump/NSA hotbutton stories as Americans (edit: at least when restricted in both cases to political wonks who post on the internet). One does get a lot of interesting perspectives from non-americans in such discussions. But "as a person from somewhere that doesn't suck, here's why you suck", generally isn't one of them.
koonsolo 6y ago
I think politically, Europe still has a different mindset than US: - We put a higher value on diplomacy and less on force - I don't hear leaders say "God save <our own country>" (might be wrong here) - We don't want to put guns in everyone's hands - We have a more social system - We don't spy on our allies for economical gains - Our world is bigger than our country or continent - We can point out various countries on a world map ;)
- bjr11 6y ago
  You forgot a couple. - Obssesed with American Politics - Consider themselves experts on issues they don't really understand

I hate this "As a European" generalizations as if Europe has an entirely homogeneous spread of governance. Take this for a second; Bulgaria and Denmark is both Europe, or Hungary and Sweden.

fuj 6y ago

To make it worse, the "As a European" is usually followed by a very judgemental or even arrogant statement. As we, the enlightened, don't understand those hillbilly politics. What does the OP not understand? The concern of China controlling key economic and tech areas? OR that a president can block a company from operating in his country? As a European, I might not agree with the decision but I do understand the general concern behind it.

senko 6y ago

With EU being "ever-closer Union" and US being a federal country where states have a lot of local power, it's not as far-fetched as you'd think (although EU is of course nowehere near the level of integration that US is). Also, the same way "America" can mean "the US", it's not strange to see people colloquially refer to the EU countries as "Europe", though both are, technically, not correct.

okamiueru 6y ago

You are absolutely right in that it gives the wrong impression of "everyone thinks the same". That said, I don't think that is the intention, ever, when it's used. There are certain aspects in how things work in the US that are so far disconnected to how it is, in most of Europe, that is baffling. By an large, this difference applies to most of Europe. It is of course an oversimplification. But, here are a few boggling things: Politics (in particular, money in politics that looks like plain bribery, or political and misleading ads everywhere), for profit private prisons, no maternity leave, unpaid internships, healthcare related personal bankruptcies. The list goes on and on, and, since this is a by and large difference to Europe, you tend to see the "As a European" phrase.

askl56 6y ago
I strongly disagree. There is nobody in Eastern Europe (or Western Europe if they know enough about politics) who is boggled by money in politics or misleading ads. There are countries in Europe that have had Gulags in the last 50 years, I doubt they are boggled by the idea of a for-profit prison system. As a European who has lived in America and now in SEA, this "as a European" is used by people who generally don't understand the variety of different life experience of people in Europe.
- okamiueru 6y ago
  I wonder if you're not going a git hard on the "strongly disagree". The main issue I think is that "as a European" tends to excludes eastern Europe in its generalization. As such, I agree that it isn't very correct. It would probably make more sense if it was "as a citizen of the more politically homogeneous Western Europe, in particular Portugal, Spain, France, Ireland, UK, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Italy, Iceland, Austria... and to some extend also but not so much for all topics and cases the other countries in Europe"... but that is a bit too terse. I think it also tries to convey how different "a very large number of countries and millions of people" views X. It will always be a generalization. So, if you consider "as a European" to be "Western Europe", it very often applies, overall. It is a generalization, after all. And, as far as generalizations go, I honestly think "as a European", or... maybe better "as a Western European", if you will, to be very useful way to express a very complex connection, and difference in opinion or... zeitgeist. For example, it helps illuminate the dichotomy in the reaction to private philanthropy in the US that should have never been necessary. For Americans, it is accepted that it is a heart warming act, while (for a European), it more often comes across as dystopian. As a final note, I'm wondering if you might not want to see that argument I'm presenting. Because you point out how my case with ads and money in politics isn't that uncommon in western Europe. Let's be clear, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, or that Europe is problem free or perfect, or anything like that, but the problem and perception of it, is worlds apart. Attack ads come across as a joke that have no place in political discourse, yet, it is everywhere in the US. But then again, maybe you are right. It is after all pretending to include the "shared voice" of people who do might very well not share that voice. It can be disingenuous. I wonder if making it more specific will still open up for smaller subsets that disagree. If you say "as a Norwegian", you are still implying agreement from others that will very much disagree.

justusw 6y ago

Agreed. It’s not any different from saying “as a westerner...”. Europe is a continent, not a political union.

squiggleblaz 6y ago
Europe isn't a continent. It's the bit of Asia where white people live. India has a much better claim to being a continent than Europe does.
- okamiueru 6y ago
  This must be the weirdest gatekeeping comment I've seen in a while. Also, who is claiming what now? Words and conventions are a thing, so it seems awfully unproductive to say something that is, isn't.

est31 6y ago

Europeans have one thing in common though: they aren't americans, disregarding the minority of stationed soldiers, diplomats, expats, immigrants, etc. "As an European" is a good way to state that you are indeed not an american. The general assumption on places like hn is that you are one. It's visible in the topic choices. As an example, the team viewer IPO, even though it's been a multibillion IPO, didn't get into hn while tons of SV tech startups do.

unishark 6y ago
There's obviously more implied by that statement though. The poster is making a criticism that their identity is apparently meant to support. When it comes to trending topics, as an insomniac I commonly find myself posting at times where Europeans or Asians dominate. Even then, US stories often dominate because so many non-americans are apparently just as obsessed with FAANG/Trump/NSA hotbutton stories as Americans (edit: at least when restricted in both cases to political wonks who post on the internet). One does get a lot of interesting perspectives from non-americans in such discussions. But "as a person from somewhere that doesn't suck, here's why you suck", generally isn't one of them.

koonsolo 6y ago

I think politically, Europe still has a different mindset than US: - We put a higher value on diplomacy and less on force - I don't hear leaders say "God save <our own country>" (might be wrong here) - We don't want to put guns in everyone's hands - We have a more social system - We don't spy on our allies for economical gains - Our world is bigger than our country or continent - We can point out various countries on a world map ;)

bjr11 6y ago
You forgot a couple. - Obssesed with American Politics - Consider themselves experts on issues they don't really understand