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Greetings Coldtea! In preparation for responding to your response, I spent a good amount of time reading many of your other comments/responses on HN. As best
by peter_d_sherman 6y ago
Greetings Coldtea!
In preparation for responding to your response, I spent a good amount of time reading many of your other comments/responses on HN.
As best I can ascertain from that reading, you are highly, highly intelligent.
That is a compliment, by the way!
Now, in preparation for my response, I believe what you should know is that what I'm going to say is not personal, it's only how I feel, only how I feel at this point in time -- and it could very well be wrong on one or more levels.
OK, with that disclaimer out of the way, here we go:
>"That gives 2,5 million people in the US with serious issues / death."
328.2 million in the US have serious issues / death or eventual death -- DUE TO OLD AGE.
That is, we are not biologically immortal.
Which brings up another philosophical issue:
If the average life expectancy for someone living in the U.S. is 78.93 years (in 2020) -- does this mean that other nations whose life expectancies are less than 78.93 years -- are guilty of killing their citizens early, because they don't follow the "best practices" of the U.S., that is, they don't do exactly what the U.S. does in its governance?
Also, would it be justified then, for those nations to control and micromanage, basically take away all of their citizens' freedoms -- in the name of increasing the average life expectancy of their citizens?
How does the old saying go? "Those who are willing to trade a little bit of their freedom for security -- deserve neither" ?
Every person who lives on God's green earth (or merely "this green earth", if that suits your religious or non-religious predilections better) has a "serious life-long issue", which is called Old Age -- and eventual (guaranteed!) death, due to that condition.
If you're going to give me a number like 2,5 million people in the US with serious issues / death, then please first understand how a statistic like that might be generated (what's the old saying, "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics"?).
Take that number, that statistic -- and please subtract all of the people who had a serious underlying health condition (Cancer, Heart Disease, Obesity, AIDS, Diabetes, or any other serious incurable disease).
Take that number -- and subtract people whose immune systems are compromised due to Old Age.
And take that number, and subtract smokers, drinkers, drug users, and people that don't exercise or eat right.
That number, once you finally refine it, through those filters, is going to be small, very small, much less than what the flu kills (again, remember that covid and flu kills via co-factors, "comorbidities" in medical parlance).
But, that exceedingly small number of people -- represents the exceedingly small number of people who didn't have a choice.
You see, the rest of the people have a choice.
That is, if someone has a known risk factor, a known comorbidity, then they can (and probably should) opt to self-quarantine.
But, not to prevent giving a disease they don't have to others -- but to prevent them from getting a disease which could be fatal to them and them only -- from others.
In other words, government orders and mandates to everyone -- invert the true social responsibility -- from those with the health conditions that require special care, those with comorbid conditions -- to the general population, when the general population is in no way responsible for those individuals' compromised health conditions in the first place.
Now with that out of the way, let's return to your comment:
>"That gives 2,5 million people in the US with serious issues / death."
OK, here's my question: Why do you care?
And here's the thing: You used a comma "," in your figure of 2,5 million.
Why is that important?
It's important because see, people here in the U.S. would have used "2.5 million" with a period: "." .
That tells me that you are not from the U.S.
I wanted to be sure that this was the case; that's why I read most of your comments until I was certain; if you want proof, I can show you multiple examples of where your past HN comments, in one way or another, show this to be true.
So I reiterate:
If you don't live in the U.S. -- then why do you care so much about what happens in the U.S.?
It's not like I go around writing messages to people that post messages about CoronaVirus in other countries and say stuff like, "Oh no, you're wrong, 20 trillion Elbonians will die!".
Why do you care so much?
Also, how do I know that you aren't paid by some person/corporation/entity for making your comments?
I post with my real name on HN; I'm quite sure there is no living person with the first name "Cold" and the last name "Tea", although, I have been surprised in the past with names that I thought were real that weren't, and vice-versa.
Now, I did mean what I said, that is, after having read your comments, I said that you are highly, highly intelligent.
Your intelligence is not in question; but if you want me to accept your statistics (and the implications of them) then the burden of proof is solely on you.
OK, we're done.
Hopefully I have not offended you in any way; if I have, you have my sincere apologies.
- Fjolsvith 6y agoBravo! Bravo!
- coldtea 6y ago> In preparation for responding to your response, I spent a good amount of time reading many of your other comments/responses on HN. As best I can ascertain from that reading, you are highly, highly intelligent. Greetings. Don't know how you've got to that erroneous conclusion, but I'll go with it :-) > 328.2 million in the US have serious issues / death or eventual death -- DUE TO OLD AGE. That is, we are not biologically immortal. Sure. How is that relevant though? We're talking about premature deaths here due to an illness. The fact that we're not immortal doesn't stop us looking left and right before crossing the street -- or taking all kinds of other precautions (both at the individual, and at the community/government level). To rephrase: we might not be immortal, but few are that cavalier about dying or eager to die sooner rather than later. > If the average life expectancy for someone living in the U.S. is 78.93 years (in 2020) -- does this mean that other nations whose life expectancies are less than 78.93 years -- are guilty of killing their citizens early, because they don't follow the "best practices" of the U.S., that is, they don't do exactly what the U.S. does in its governance? Well, I'm sure about those being the "best", since there exist nations with higher life expectancies. I'd also say that: (a) it should be a kind of goal for nations to have their citizens live more and better lives. Isn't better living conditions (from business cooperation and economy, to health, social life, safety, justice, etc.) a basic motivation behind having human communities in the first place (and subsequently things like nations)? I'm pretty sure e.g. Sierra Leone (life expectancy around 54) would want to do much better... (b) it is however not a be-all-end-all goal, other goals (including preferred way of life, freedom, etc., can always have priority). > Also, would it be justified then, for those nations to control and micromanage, basically take away all of their citizens' freedoms -- in the name of increasing the average life expectancy of their citizens? No. That said, a once-in-100-years pandemic with the potential to kill millions is hardly cause for concern about "micromanaging". And, I'd like to point out, nobody proposed to "take away all of their citizens' freedoms" (in any democratic country faced with covid), as far as I know. Not even most. Just some, and just for the period necessary to handle the crisis. > How does the old saying go? "Those who are willing to trade a little bit of their freedom for security -- deserve neither" ? Well, that's how an old saying goes. But for me it's not some ultimate god-given wisdom about the matters of freedom and safety, just a rough guideline. On the other hand, those who aren't willing to trade a little bit of freedom for security, might find out they're invaded, enslaved, sick, dead, living in an anarchy (the bad kind, where the more powerful do what they please and there's chaos in the streets, not the friendly "no government" one), and so on, depending on the respective danger they wouldn't trade some freedom to handle. In other words: freedom doesn't come for free. It requires some sacrifice, and it's bounded by conditions (including safety concerns). Plus, of course, it should not risk/hurt the freedom of others. Of course someone could say: "I don't care for all that, I want absolute freedom". But others, assuming that person lives in a society, aren't necessarily to agree to that. 1/2