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In iOS 13, Apple and third-party ad tracking were both controlled by the same opt-out setting. In iOS 14, the settings have been split, with third party trackin

In iOS 13, Apple and third-party ad tracking were both controlled by the same opt-out setting. In iOS 14, the settings have been split, with third party tracking disabled and and Apple’s tracking enabled by default. Blatant anticompetitive behavior to promote their own tracking services in the guise of protecting users. Genius move by Apple. https://twitter.com/eric_seufert/status/1291730115253145600?s=21 https://twitter.com/eric_seufert/status/1291730115253145600?...

AlexandrB 6y ago
This is a pretty shitty move by Apple! Having said that, I can still disable Apple's tracking. I cannot easily do this with Google or Facebook. So while separating the first and third party preferences a shitty move, the changes to tracking protections in iOS 14 still do protect users.
- dialtone 6y ago
  You can 100% easily disable tracking with Google and Facebook. They both are required by GDPR and CCPA to provide the tools to do that. In both cases you can go in your account and disable targeted ads. Do it.
  - A2D5F69A 6y ago
    > disable tracking with Google and Facebook > go in your account and disable targeted ads Those are not the same thing.
    - dialtone 6y ago
      GDPR and CCPA give you control to stop tracking altogether, not allowed to drop cookies to you. I fail to understand how that would be different.
csunbird 6y ago
Do not worry, the device identifier by Apple is rarely used anyways, usually ad networks identify the user either by fingerprinting or the app developer willingly giving away personal information like e-mail or login information.
- adrr 6y ago
  Curious how you fingerprint an iOS device? I assume you can’t pull MAC, installed apps or anything that would be unique per phone owner.
  - csunbird 6y ago
    I am actually not sure, but they do it somehow.
ignoramous 6y ago
At least there is a way to opt-out compared to, say, things like this: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=carrieriq&sort=byPopularity&prefix=false&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=carrieriq&sort=byPopularity&pr...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
dhimes 6y ago
That looks like iOS 14- I don't see that separation in 13.6
- shajznnckfke 6y ago
  Correct, there was a typo in my comment. I edited to add “14”.
machello13 6y ago
To what extent is this really "tracking"? Apple's ads are served only in a few of their own apps, like the App Store and News. They're only tracking you across their own services, no differently than Facebook or Google could do in iOS 14, right?
- shajznnckfke 6y ago
  This seems like a poor equivalence when Facebook and Google aren’t allowed to run an App Store on iOS, and Apple also boosts News, Music and other services by bundling and exempting them from the 30% revenue cut that competitors are subject to. Overall, the big picture is Apple is leveraging their power of platform owner to advantage their other businesses at the expense of competition and ultimately the consumer. The big money at stake in this particular change is ads promoting the installation of apps. Facebook’s current tracking allows them to show that a particular ad FB displayed resulted in spending on an app. Apple taking over this business with their own ad service is just another aspect of their efforts to capture an ever-expanding chunk of commerce that occurs on every iOS device. Keep in mind the context that Apple is banning apps for allowing users to use subscription services without paying Apple 30% of the subscription revenue. For what it’s worth, Google is guilty of some of the same issues on Android. I hope any regulation cracking down on these abuses will be equally applied.
  - machello13 6y ago
    I'm not sure it's a poor equivalence. Apple's ads appear only in a few of their own apps. I wouldn't even call it an ad service, because that implies that third-parties can use it. In comparison, Google and Facebook both operate actual, for-profit ad services that are used across almost every website and app in the world. I agree about Apple being too strict on the App Store. But it's not really what I'm talking about.
    - shajznnckfke 6y ago
      Apple does offer an ad service to third parties: https://searchads.apple.com https://searchads.apple.com The biggest market for Facebook’s ads on iOS is for apps. Apple is cracking down on that with this change, so Facebook won’t be able to show attribution for app purchases. It’s hard not to think that this change is an effort to take over the market with their competing app advertising service. My claim is that this is part of the larger effort to take a bigger cut the economic activity that happens on the phone. The 30% app cut expansion to cover more services is part of that. Capturing the advertising revenue for apps is another. The only way for Apple to keep growing as a two trillion dollar company is to take over more of the economy, and this is part of that effort. I envision a future where, if they can get away with it, Apple takes an expanding cut of every Doordash delivery, every Uber ride, every Amazon purchase, and any other good or service that they can obtain sufficient market power to capture.
partiallypro 6y ago
This is my main issue with it. If Microsoft say, added something to your host file, that blocked all ad trackers except from the Microsoft network, everyone would be up in arms. But since it's Apple, people think this is out of the goodness of their heart when really they just want all the data for themselves which they will eventually use in their in-app advertising. Heck maybe they will use this to subsidize any losses they gave from eventually having to lower their 30% fee.
- usmannk 6y ago
  > If Microsoft say, added something to your host file, that blocked all ad trackers except from the Microsoft network, everyone would be up in arms. You'll love this: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/windows-10-hosts-file-blocking-telemetry-is-now-flagged-as-a-risk/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/windows-10-h...
  - partiallypro 6y ago
    Not seeing how this is similar? Telemetry data used to detect OS bugs vs highly intrusive data collection that is used for advertising?
    - chaps 6y ago
      Consider a scenario where a non-technical person whose friend blocked telemetry through the hosts file for them, and they get a pop-up saying that the hosts file is risky. It's stochastically likely that it's scary enough that they'll undo the privacy-preserving changes. In this case, Microsoft is using their weight to push users away from privacy.
Despegar 6y ago
From Peter Kafka: >Yes. Apple has a detailed answer but essentially says that's not so, and is a misreading of its policy. https://twitter.com/pkafka/status/1298662980457046016 https://twitter.com/pkafka/status/1298662980457046016
- shajznnckfke 6y ago
  I’d love to get more details about this.
filleokus 6y ago
Hmm, what is "their own tracking services"? iAd is dead since long, the only ads they serve are Apple Search Ads right? Is there any evidence/suggestion that they are using usage data from outside the App Store to target ASA? The promo-page doesn't seem to indicate that at least [1]. I mean, still in iOS 14, Google can use your data from e.g Google Maps / Chrome to target ads in the Youtube app on the same device without requiring any accounts by using identifierForVendor [0]. AFAIK this wouldn't require them to show the scary pop-up either, since they are only sharing the info with themselves? But yeah, even without "tracking" the users, the ASA is of course in a privileged position, both in its prominent position in the (only) App Store, and by the possibility to charge per e.g app install. Doing reliable app install tracking without IDFA is next to impossible. Taking it further by restarting iAd now would be highly problematic imho. [0]: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uidevice/1620059-identifierforvendor https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uidevice/162... [1]: https://searchads.apple.com/privacy/ https://searchads.apple.com/privacy/
- shajznnckfke 6y ago
  Facebook’s top ad business on iOS is for app installs. Their cross-app tracking is how they demonstrate that the ad resulted in app sales. Apple is cutting that off here. As you mention, Apple’s competing ad service is also for app installs.
  - adrr 6y ago
    Apple will actually hurt themselves with this change. The apps that can afford to advertise have a paid component to generate revenues. Apple taxes this revenue at 30%. I don’t get why they are going after FB when they aren’t a threat and Social media is the reason to people upgrade your phone to get a better camera. Not to mention the revenue FB drives in App Store purchases.
    - nomel 6y ago
      From my naive perspective, it looks like they’re taking their privacy stance so seriously that they’re willing to lose some revenue.
pseudalopex 6y ago
iOS 14 has a prompt for third party tracking.[1] It isn't disabled. [1] https://techcrunch.com/2020/06/22/apple-ios-14-ad-tracking/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/06/22/apple-ios-14-ad-tracking/

AlexandrB 6y ago

This is a pretty shitty move by Apple! Having said that, I can still disable Apple's tracking. I cannot easily do this with Google or Facebook. So while separating the first and third party preferences a shitty move, the changes to tracking protections in iOS 14 still do protect users.

dialtone 6y ago
You can 100% easily disable tracking with Google and Facebook. They both are required by GDPR and CCPA to provide the tools to do that. In both cases you can go in your account and disable targeted ads. Do it.
- A2D5F69A 6y ago
  > disable tracking with Google and Facebook > go in your account and disable targeted ads Those are not the same thing.
  - dialtone 6y ago
    GDPR and CCPA give you control to stop tracking altogether, not allowed to drop cookies to you. I fail to understand how that would be different.

csunbird 6y ago

Do not worry, the device identifier by Apple is rarely used anyways, usually ad networks identify the user either by fingerprinting or the app developer willingly giving away personal information like e-mail or login information.

adrr 6y ago
Curious how you fingerprint an iOS device? I assume you can’t pull MAC, installed apps or anything that would be unique per phone owner.
- csunbird 6y ago
  I am actually not sure, but they do it somehow.

ignoramous 6y ago

At least there is a way to opt-out compared to, say, things like this: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=carrieriq&sort=byPopularity&prefix=false&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=carrieriq&sort=byPopularity&pr...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

dhimes 6y ago

That looks like iOS 14- I don't see that separation in 13.6

shajznnckfke 6y ago
Correct, there was a typo in my comment. I edited to add “14”.

machello13 6y ago

To what extent is this really "tracking"? Apple's ads are served only in a few of their own apps, like the App Store and News. They're only tracking you across their own services, no differently than Facebook or Google could do in iOS 14, right?

shajznnckfke 6y ago
This seems like a poor equivalence when Facebook and Google aren’t allowed to run an App Store on iOS, and Apple also boosts News, Music and other services by bundling and exempting them from the 30% revenue cut that competitors are subject to. Overall, the big picture is Apple is leveraging their power of platform owner to advantage their other businesses at the expense of competition and ultimately the consumer. The big money at stake in this particular change is ads promoting the installation of apps. Facebook’s current tracking allows them to show that a particular ad FB displayed resulted in spending on an app. Apple taking over this business with their own ad service is just another aspect of their efforts to capture an ever-expanding chunk of commerce that occurs on every iOS device. Keep in mind the context that Apple is banning apps for allowing users to use subscription services without paying Apple 30% of the subscription revenue. For what it’s worth, Google is guilty of some of the same issues on Android. I hope any regulation cracking down on these abuses will be equally applied.
- machello13 6y ago
  I'm not sure it's a poor equivalence. Apple's ads appear only in a few of their own apps. I wouldn't even call it an ad service, because that implies that third-parties can use it. In comparison, Google and Facebook both operate actual, for-profit ad services that are used across almost every website and app in the world. I agree about Apple being too strict on the App Store. But it's not really what I'm talking about.
  - shajznnckfke 6y ago
    Apple does offer an ad service to third parties: https://searchads.apple.com https://searchads.apple.com The biggest market for Facebook’s ads on iOS is for apps. Apple is cracking down on that with this change, so Facebook won’t be able to show attribution for app purchases. It’s hard not to think that this change is an effort to take over the market with their competing app advertising service. My claim is that this is part of the larger effort to take a bigger cut the economic activity that happens on the phone. The 30% app cut expansion to cover more services is part of that. Capturing the advertising revenue for apps is another. The only way for Apple to keep growing as a two trillion dollar company is to take over more of the economy, and this is part of that effort. I envision a future where, if they can get away with it, Apple takes an expanding cut of every Doordash delivery, every Uber ride, every Amazon purchase, and any other good or service that they can obtain sufficient market power to capture.

partiallypro 6y ago

This is my main issue with it. If Microsoft say, added something to your host file, that blocked all ad trackers except from the Microsoft network, everyone would be up in arms. But since it's Apple, people think this is out of the goodness of their heart when really they just want all the data for themselves which they will eventually use in their in-app advertising. Heck maybe they will use this to subsidize any losses they gave from eventually having to lower their 30% fee.

usmannk 6y ago
> If Microsoft say, added something to your host file, that blocked all ad trackers except from the Microsoft network, everyone would be up in arms. You'll love this: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/windows-10-hosts-file-blocking-telemetry-is-now-flagged-as-a-risk/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/windows-10-h...
- partiallypro 6y ago
  Not seeing how this is similar? Telemetry data used to detect OS bugs vs highly intrusive data collection that is used for advertising?
  - chaps 6y ago
    Consider a scenario where a non-technical person whose friend blocked telemetry through the hosts file for them, and they get a pop-up saying that the hosts file is risky. It's stochastically likely that it's scary enough that they'll undo the privacy-preserving changes. In this case, Microsoft is using their weight to push users away from privacy.

Despegar 6y ago

From Peter Kafka: >Yes. Apple has a detailed answer but essentially says that's not so, and is a misreading of its policy. https://twitter.com/pkafka/status/1298662980457046016 https://twitter.com/pkafka/status/1298662980457046016

shajznnckfke 6y ago
I’d love to get more details about this.

filleokus 6y ago

Hmm, what is "their own tracking services"? iAd is dead since long, the only ads they serve are Apple Search Ads right? Is there any evidence/suggestion that they are using usage data from outside the App Store to target ASA? The promo-page doesn't seem to indicate that at least [1]. I mean, still in iOS 14, Google can use your data from e.g Google Maps / Chrome to target ads in the Youtube app on the same device without requiring any accounts by using identifierForVendor [0]. AFAIK this wouldn't require them to show the scary pop-up either, since they are only sharing the info with themselves? But yeah, even without "tracking" the users, the ASA is of course in a privileged position, both in its prominent position in the (only) App Store, and by the possibility to charge per e.g app install. Doing reliable app install tracking without IDFA is next to impossible. Taking it further by restarting iAd now would be highly problematic imho. [0]: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uidevice/1620059-identifierforvendor https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uidevice/162... [1]: https://searchads.apple.com/privacy/ https://searchads.apple.com/privacy/

shajznnckfke 6y ago
Facebook’s top ad business on iOS is for app installs. Their cross-app tracking is how they demonstrate that the ad resulted in app sales. Apple is cutting that off here. As you mention, Apple’s competing ad service is also for app installs.
- adrr 6y ago
  Apple will actually hurt themselves with this change. The apps that can afford to advertise have a paid component to generate revenues. Apple taxes this revenue at 30%. I don’t get why they are going after FB when they aren’t a threat and Social media is the reason to people upgrade your phone to get a better camera. Not to mention the revenue FB drives in App Store purchases.
  - nomel 6y ago
    From my naive perspective, it looks like they’re taking their privacy stance so seriously that they’re willing to lose some revenue.

pseudalopex 6y ago

iOS 14 has a prompt for third party tracking.[1] It isn't disabled. [1] https://techcrunch.com/2020/06/22/apple-ios-14-ad-tracking/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/06/22/apple-ios-14-ad-tracking/