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Hmm, there could be some context I'm missing, but his comments on this come across to me as a bit ill-informed. But I'm just an avid DIYer who has taken apart a

Hmm, there could be some context I'm missing, but his comments on this come across to me as a bit ill-informed. But I'm just an avid DIYer who has taken apart and repaired many appliances, so take as you will. > toxic plastic I'm not sure what this is referring to. You don't normally eat (or eat off of) the plastic components of a refrigerator. Maybe this is more an environmental concern than a health one? > almost no thermal mass Isn't this a desirable property of a highly-insulated box? Ideally, the most thermal mass should come from its contents, not the appliance itself. > highly toxic and expensive refrigerant gas R134a is the most common refrigerant used in residential refrigerators these days, which is not particularly toxic to humans. It's the primary ingredient in canned air dusters and no one seems to have a problem with that. 30lb tanks of this can be had for a little over $100, and a refrigerator would hold less than a pound of it. It does have a very high GWP though--an environmental concern, not a health one. (Side note -- I've also noticed propane (R-290) is becoming more common in commercial refrigerators.) > energy hogging To be fair, modern refrigerator compressors have become much more energy efficient than they used to be. Additionally, a variable speed compressor would have previously been unheard of in a residential appliance, but are now becoming relatively common in middle-to-high-end refrigerators. > uneconomic to service generally Well, this is hard to refute :) The problem is definitely broader than refrigerators, but residential appliances do seem particularly prone to it. One issue here is that refrigeration work in particular requires special equipment and expertise. From my experience, parts are often the least expensive aspect of repairing an appliance.

contingencies 6y ago
The concerns he expresses are environmental, both in terms of energy efficiency (wasted fossil fuel energy) and in terms of lifecycle (component disposal). There are many refrigerants in active use, not just R134a. The positive trend in developed countries (particularly Europe) is towards R744 (high pressure CO2) for commercial use. However, most refrigerants are still a long way from clean, including R134a. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane
userbinator 6y ago
I mostly agree, although as an owner of a late 30s refrigerator I personally restored, I'd say there hasn't been much improvements on the mechanical side of things --- the increased efficiency largely comes from better insulation (I reinsulated mine qhen I restored it.) The only refrigerants I'd consider "toxic" are things like SO2 and ammonia, both of which haven't been used in domestic machines for a long time (mine uses the original R114); and in fact the biggest selling point of CFCs and HFCs is that they're both nontoxic and nonflammable, while offering comparable efficiency. We might still be using CFCs today, if people hadn't been so cavalier with releasing them into the atmosphere.
Spooky23 6y ago
As someone dealing with a failed fridge right now, I’d beg to differ. Most modern fridges rely on controllers that are vulnerable to fail in high heat conditions, which are common given the awful placement of the coils and motors of fridges. The pursuit of energy efficiency replaced easily serviced, long lasting gear with “efficient” junk with a MTBF of ~60 months. I have a garage fridge that my dad pulled out of the garbage 35 years ago.
- redshirtrob 6y ago
  > given the awful placement of the coils and motors of fridges. Oh, man. So much this. The refrigerator that came with my house, a circa 2006 Samsung, has coils that grow ice. The (evaporator?) fan is positioned in such a way that the ice eventually grows into the fan blades. First it makes a super-annoying scraping sound, then the temperature in the fridge slowly creeps up to unsafe levels. The fix only takes about an hour. You have to remove the back panel and defrost the coils with a hair dryer. I've done it a couple times now. It boggles my mind that we can't have nicer appliances. I'd certainly be willing to pay more at this point in my life, but I have zero confidence I wouldn't just be paying more for the same trash.
  - contingencies 6y ago
    Modern fridges have a defrost cycle built in which does this automatically. Are you by any chance in a high humidity location or running the fridge without adequate ventilation? You could possibly ask the service staff to adjust the thing to make it run more frequently, or request a replacement controller.
    - Spooky23 6y ago
      The Whirlpool bottom freezer model I own has a defective radiator design, where significant parts of the radiator are only cleanable by tipping the appliance and accessing from below. Not being the Hulk, I’m not regularly lifting a 300+ lb appliance and I doubt anyone else is. So every few years, it overheats in the summer. It also shipped with a defective drain plug that would get blocked by a biofilm and cause the whole fridge to ice up. That was eventually recalled. All of this is incompetence and engineering malpractice, committed by one of the largest and well respected appliance manufacturers. Their sole priority is engineered reliability to maximize revenue.

contingencies 6y ago

The concerns he expresses are environmental, both in terms of energy efficiency (wasted fossil fuel energy) and in terms of lifecycle (component disposal). There are many refrigerants in active use, not just R134a. The positive trend in developed countries (particularly Europe) is towards R744 (high pressure CO2) for commercial use. However, most refrigerants are still a long way from clean, including R134a. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane

userbinator 6y ago

I mostly agree, although as an owner of a late 30s refrigerator I personally restored, I'd say there hasn't been much improvements on the mechanical side of things --- the increased efficiency largely comes from better insulation (I reinsulated mine qhen I restored it.) The only refrigerants I'd consider "toxic" are things like SO2 and ammonia, both of which haven't been used in domestic machines for a long time (mine uses the original R114); and in fact the biggest selling point of CFCs and HFCs is that they're both nontoxic and nonflammable, while offering comparable efficiency. We might still be using CFCs today, if people hadn't been so cavalier with releasing them into the atmosphere.

Spooky23 6y ago

As someone dealing with a failed fridge right now, I’d beg to differ. Most modern fridges rely on controllers that are vulnerable to fail in high heat conditions, which are common given the awful placement of the coils and motors of fridges. The pursuit of energy efficiency replaced easily serviced, long lasting gear with “efficient” junk with a MTBF of ~60 months. I have a garage fridge that my dad pulled out of the garbage 35 years ago.

redshirtrob 6y ago
> given the awful placement of the coils and motors of fridges. Oh, man. So much this. The refrigerator that came with my house, a circa 2006 Samsung, has coils that grow ice. The (evaporator?) fan is positioned in such a way that the ice eventually grows into the fan blades. First it makes a super-annoying scraping sound, then the temperature in the fridge slowly creeps up to unsafe levels. The fix only takes about an hour. You have to remove the back panel and defrost the coils with a hair dryer. I've done it a couple times now. It boggles my mind that we can't have nicer appliances. I'd certainly be willing to pay more at this point in my life, but I have zero confidence I wouldn't just be paying more for the same trash.
- contingencies 6y ago
  Modern fridges have a defrost cycle built in which does this automatically. Are you by any chance in a high humidity location or running the fridge without adequate ventilation? You could possibly ask the service staff to adjust the thing to make it run more frequently, or request a replacement controller.
  - Spooky23 6y ago
    The Whirlpool bottom freezer model I own has a defective radiator design, where significant parts of the radiator are only cleanable by tipping the appliance and accessing from below. Not being the Hulk, I’m not regularly lifting a 300+ lb appliance and I doubt anyone else is. So every few years, it overheats in the summer. It also shipped with a defective drain plug that would get blocked by a biofilm and cause the whole fridge to ice up. That was eventually recalled. All of this is incompetence and engineering malpractice, committed by one of the largest and well respected appliance manufacturers. Their sole priority is engineered reliability to maximize revenue.