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Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think most people fear the state of being dead, which is what this essay is centered around. "Fear of death" is more commonly the f

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think most people fear the state of being dead, which is what this essay is centered around. "Fear of death" is more commonly the fear of the approach of the end of life, ranging from the prolonged downward slide into decrepitude or terminal illness on one end of the spectrum to the physically violent moments of struggle against death on the other end. In other words, if you were 100% guaranteed to die by instant vaporization at some random time in the last quarter of life with no forewarning, would you still fear death?

garaetjjte 6y ago
Yes, I would. Thinking about that I will cease to exist sometime is most terrifying.
- grugagag 6y ago
  To me it’s more terrifying to think that I might loose my mind to dementia or alzheimer’s, that I might not know who i am, who i was, who my children are.. that’s terrifying. Though I think this experience is even worse for the others. My grandmother had alzheimers and in the last stage she was serene and smiling..
  - JoshTriplett 6y ago
    > To me it’s more terrifying to think that I might loose my mind to dementia or alzheimer’s To me, that's equally terrifying, in that both are nearly equivalent (you are your mind) and the only difference is that dementia or Alzheimer's might potentially be reversible/repairable.
  - pc86 6y ago
    If your mind is gone, are you still you? Unless you believe that each human has a unique soul, there's not much left to make you you except your mind. And after a disease has attacked your mind, you might as well already be dead physically because you are a completely different person.
    - guerrilla 6y ago
      Does that matter? If you poke that person, won't they still hurt regardless of who they are?
      - pc86 6y ago
        That seems irrelevant. I didn't say they weren't a person, I said it seems unlikely they're the same person. You seem to be trying to ascribe some sort of ill intent or meaning to my question when there was none.
        guerrilla 6y ago
        No ill intent ascribed. What I mean is that it'd still be an immense suffering regardless of whether you'd still be you or not.
        grugagag 6y ago
        Yes but if it's not you anymore you can't connect empathically with the future you who doesn't know who they are anymore. It's a relief in a way but also scary at the same time. I've seen a guy in his early 40s afflicted with earl onset dementia and alzheimer and he was loosing it little by little every day and it was terrifying. At some point he stopped knowing who he was and he seemed peaceful. He also could not communicate, care for himself, I don't think he couldn't even feel pain anymore.
    - grugagag 6y ago
      Yes but the idea terrifies me nonetheless. It terrifies me now to think about it. If I could, but I know that's not feasible, I'd ask my loved ones to terminate me as soon as I don't know who I am and start pooping my pants, playing with feces and attacking my grandchildren. Seeing a loved one go through Alzheimer is agonizing and degrading the memory of the patient. You'll forever remember them as what they ended up being in their last stage of life.
- picodguyo 6y ago
  Interesting, thanks. I suppose I am terrified that others I love might die in my lifetime, but my own end of existence elicits only sadness/empathy.
- NikolaeVarius 6y ago
  How do you get to sleep at night
  - garaetjjte 6y ago
    I just try not to think about it too much. It seems that this fear is quite widespread, given amount of religions that promise some sort of afterlife. I feel that believers have somewhat chosen "easier" way, so that instead of worrying about ceasing existing they have perspective of heaven/hell/whatever. But given the amount of logical contradictions involved, I'm just intellectually unable to accept religion.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  Interesting. The you who thought those words has already ceased to exist, in the same way as the 10 year old version of you no longer exists. There is no exist/not exist, really, there is only the continuous rearrangement of energy.
  - garaetjjte 6y ago
    Technically true, but I still feel consciousness continuity with these previous states of 'me'. And while I'm aware that fear of nonexistence is pointless and unactionable (because when I die there would be no more 'me', no more thoughts, so really no point to worry about something that I would never experience), that knowledge doesn't actually help with my primal fear of nonexistence.
    - david-gpu 6y ago
      You didn't exist a hundred years ago, either. Does that bother you? Countless people die every day and the rest of us go on. I personally find a lot of comfort in knowing that the world will keep turning just fine without me. Maybe a therapist would be helpful.
grugagag 6y ago
Yes, we fear the suffering associated with death but we also fear the permanent loss of contact with dear ones, the connection is cut forever and it takes some work on oneself to accept that and that it’s part of the cycle of life. Maybe our current culture also plays a role in us clinging to life and fear of death
glitcher 6y ago
I agree, I have more fear of the pain and suffering of a gradual (or not so gradual) decline in mental and physical abilities that leads to old age and death. Which of course could be a complete waste of time to worry about if I happen to get hit by a bus tomorrow and die instantly! But the other real fear the article mentions which I also agree with is the fear of missing out. Will my significant other wither away in sorrow, or will they move on and find happiness with a new partner? Will my loved ones left behind remain financially stable without me - did I do enough to provide for them in the time that I had? It's easy to say "What do I care what goes on after I'm gone, I'll be dead!", but I have trouble convincing myself of that when it comes to loved ones.
erikig 6y ago
"Fear of death" and "fear of dying" are distinctly different. The article does a good job of examining the former but kind excuses itself from the latter.
agumonkey 6y ago
I kinda agree it's the loss of joy and happiness that causes most of the dread. I may be naive but death is change-too-large (change in relationships, change in groups, neighborhoods, change in locations due to work, destruction) and avoiding that is to change accordingly.
philwelch 6y ago
I think most people actually do fear death itself more than the process of dying. The process of dying in modern societies is often utterly horrific to a degree many people are unaware of, and people subject their loved ones to this process out of a misplaced notion of kindness. The only logical reason to do this is because death itself is feared even more. Related: https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/17/who-by-very-slow-decay/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/17/who-by-very-slow-decay...
- guerrilla 6y ago
  > kindness. The only logical reason to do this is because death itself is feared even more. Or it could be out of selfishness because loss is feared even more.
  - philwelch 6y ago
    I’m trying to be charitable here, but yes.
l332mn 6y ago
That doesn't seem quite accurate to me. I think fear of death generally revolves around a fear of loss, not a fear of pain or illness. Death represents the loss of your every possession, every opportunity, your contact with loved ones, unresolved guilt, unattained dreams, etc.. It is an absolute state of loss, and given how extremely loss-aversive humans generally are, a fear of death seem to naturally follow.
the_jeremy 6y ago
I strongly contemplated suicide (5+ years ago, I'm good now). The thing that stopped me was not the fear of dying, or of bringing pain to myself or others, it was the fear of nothing, forever. Forever is incomprehensibly vast. Even now that I likely have many decades ahead of me, the concept of "nothing, forever" gives me anxiety if I dwell on it too long.
MaximumYComb 6y ago
In some ways, yes I would. When I die I no longer experience anything. I'm reasonably young still and I want to watch my children grow up, to be there to support them, to see their achievements and to help them when needed. If I die then that is ripped away from me. When I am older and I can look back at my life then I think I will be ok with dying. For now though, I want to live the one life I've been given.

garaetjjte 6y ago

Yes, I would. Thinking about that I will cease to exist sometime is most terrifying.

grugagag 6y ago
To me it’s more terrifying to think that I might loose my mind to dementia or alzheimer’s, that I might not know who i am, who i was, who my children are.. that’s terrifying. Though I think this experience is even worse for the others. My grandmother had alzheimers and in the last stage she was serene and smiling..
- JoshTriplett 6y ago
  > To me it’s more terrifying to think that I might loose my mind to dementia or alzheimer’s To me, that's equally terrifying, in that both are nearly equivalent (you are your mind) and the only difference is that dementia or Alzheimer's might potentially be reversible/repairable.
- pc86 6y ago
  If your mind is gone, are you still you? Unless you believe that each human has a unique soul, there's not much left to make you you except your mind. And after a disease has attacked your mind, you might as well already be dead physically because you are a completely different person.
  - guerrilla 6y ago
    Does that matter? If you poke that person, won't they still hurt regardless of who they are?
    - pc86 6y ago
      That seems irrelevant. I didn't say they weren't a person, I said it seems unlikely they're the same person. You seem to be trying to ascribe some sort of ill intent or meaning to my question when there was none.
      - guerrilla 6y ago
        No ill intent ascribed. What I mean is that it'd still be an immense suffering regardless of whether you'd still be you or not.
        grugagag 6y ago
        Yes but if it's not you anymore you can't connect empathically with the future you who doesn't know who they are anymore. It's a relief in a way but also scary at the same time. I've seen a guy in his early 40s afflicted with earl onset dementia and alzheimer and he was loosing it little by little every day and it was terrifying. At some point he stopped knowing who he was and he seemed peaceful. He also could not communicate, care for himself, I don't think he couldn't even feel pain anymore.
  - grugagag 6y ago
    Yes but the idea terrifies me nonetheless. It terrifies me now to think about it. If I could, but I know that's not feasible, I'd ask my loved ones to terminate me as soon as I don't know who I am and start pooping my pants, playing with feces and attacking my grandchildren. Seeing a loved one go through Alzheimer is agonizing and degrading the memory of the patient. You'll forever remember them as what they ended up being in their last stage of life.
picodguyo 6y ago
Interesting, thanks. I suppose I am terrified that others I love might die in my lifetime, but my own end of existence elicits only sadness/empathy.
NikolaeVarius 6y ago
How do you get to sleep at night
- garaetjjte 6y ago
  I just try not to think about it too much. It seems that this fear is quite widespread, given amount of religions that promise some sort of afterlife. I feel that believers have somewhat chosen "easier" way, so that instead of worrying about ceasing existing they have perspective of heaven/hell/whatever. But given the amount of logical contradictions involved, I'm just intellectually unable to accept religion.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
Interesting. The you who thought those words has already ceased to exist, in the same way as the 10 year old version of you no longer exists. There is no exist/not exist, really, there is only the continuous rearrangement of energy.
- garaetjjte 6y ago
  Technically true, but I still feel consciousness continuity with these previous states of 'me'. And while I'm aware that fear of nonexistence is pointless and unactionable (because when I die there would be no more 'me', no more thoughts, so really no point to worry about something that I would never experience), that knowledge doesn't actually help with my primal fear of nonexistence.
  - david-gpu 6y ago
    You didn't exist a hundred years ago, either. Does that bother you? Countless people die every day and the rest of us go on. I personally find a lot of comfort in knowing that the world will keep turning just fine without me. Maybe a therapist would be helpful.

grugagag 6y ago

Yes, we fear the suffering associated with death but we also fear the permanent loss of contact with dear ones, the connection is cut forever and it takes some work on oneself to accept that and that it’s part of the cycle of life. Maybe our current culture also plays a role in us clinging to life and fear of death

glitcher 6y ago

I agree, I have more fear of the pain and suffering of a gradual (or not so gradual) decline in mental and physical abilities that leads to old age and death. Which of course could be a complete waste of time to worry about if I happen to get hit by a bus tomorrow and die instantly! But the other real fear the article mentions which I also agree with is the fear of missing out. Will my significant other wither away in sorrow, or will they move on and find happiness with a new partner? Will my loved ones left behind remain financially stable without me - did I do enough to provide for them in the time that I had? It's easy to say "What do I care what goes on after I'm gone, I'll be dead!", but I have trouble convincing myself of that when it comes to loved ones.

erikig 6y ago

"Fear of death" and "fear of dying" are distinctly different. The article does a good job of examining the former but kind excuses itself from the latter.

agumonkey 6y ago

I kinda agree it's the loss of joy and happiness that causes most of the dread. I may be naive but death is change-too-large (change in relationships, change in groups, neighborhoods, change in locations due to work, destruction) and avoiding that is to change accordingly.

philwelch 6y ago

I think most people actually do fear death itself more than the process of dying. The process of dying in modern societies is often utterly horrific to a degree many people are unaware of, and people subject their loved ones to this process out of a misplaced notion of kindness. The only logical reason to do this is because death itself is feared even more. Related: https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/17/who-by-very-slow-decay/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/17/who-by-very-slow-decay...

guerrilla 6y ago
> kindness. The only logical reason to do this is because death itself is feared even more. Or it could be out of selfishness because loss is feared even more.
- philwelch 6y ago
  I’m trying to be charitable here, but yes.

l332mn 6y ago

That doesn't seem quite accurate to me. I think fear of death generally revolves around a fear of loss, not a fear of pain or illness. Death represents the loss of your every possession, every opportunity, your contact with loved ones, unresolved guilt, unattained dreams, etc.. It is an absolute state of loss, and given how extremely loss-aversive humans generally are, a fear of death seem to naturally follow.

the_jeremy 6y ago

I strongly contemplated suicide (5+ years ago, I'm good now). The thing that stopped me was not the fear of dying, or of bringing pain to myself or others, it was the fear of nothing, forever. Forever is incomprehensibly vast. Even now that I likely have many decades ahead of me, the concept of "nothing, forever" gives me anxiety if I dwell on it too long.

MaximumYComb 6y ago

In some ways, yes I would. When I die I no longer experience anything. I'm reasonably young still and I want to watch my children grow up, to be there to support them, to see their achievements and to help them when needed. If I die then that is ripped away from me. When I am older and I can look back at my life then I think I will be ok with dying. For now though, I want to live the one life I've been given.