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> Maybe rocket travel yes, though, because you can scale that way more than the jet. What? Jets carry hundreds of thousands of pounds of payload - a 747 can c

by Alupis 6y ago

> Maybe rocket travel yes, though, because you can scale that way more than the jet. What? Jets carry hundreds of thousands of pounds of payload - a 747 can carry nearly 250,000lbs of payload. Rockets carry payloads in the range of thousands pounds at most. Simply making your rocket bigger isn't an easy solution, and you start burning a ton more fuel for marginal payload gains. It also doesn't cost $90 Million to fly a 747 every time it takes off...

justaguy88 6y ago
Spacex-Starship with a booster below it could put that weight suborbital to the other side of the world and should only cost a few million per flight since the hardware is reused each time
- Alupis 6y ago
  A few million? $90 Million is the current cost of a reusable Falcon Heavy[1]. Even if you cut that in half, that's still 10's of millions more expensive than flying a 747 between two destinations. For comparison, it costs - on the high end - $27,000 per hour of flight to operate a 747[2]. For a 12 hour flight, that's ~$324,000 of cost, or about 0.72% of the fictitious $45 Million-Per-Launch "Starship". There is no reality where flying a rocket is cheaper than an airplane. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_Heavy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_Heavy [2] https://www.opshots.net/2015/04/aircraft-operating-series-aircraft-operating-expenses/#:~:text=More%20engines%20lead%20to%20higher,%2415%2C374%20in%20fuel%20per%20hour https://www.opshots.net/2015/04/aircraft-operating-series-ai....
  - njarboe 6y ago
    Rockets might not be cheaper but it could be close and they will beat the airplane by far on speed and views. Elon Musk is thinking/hoping that the cost for SpaceX to launch a 100 passenger Starship will be around $2 million[1] considering fuel and operational costs. The rockets will be fully reusable like airplanes and cost about the same to make. And, for long flights fuel use is similar. Hope it happens. Making rockets reusable was the key and SpaceX has been doing well with advancing that concept so far. [1]https://www.space.com/spacex-starship-flight-passenger-cost-elon-musk.html https://www.space.com/spacex-starship-flight-passenger-cost-...
    - Alupis 6y ago
      That's a whole lot of magical hand-waving right there. For starters, even at these fantasy numbers, that's still $20,000 per seat. Who needs and/or wants that? Very few people, as Concorde found out, and as Boom will soon learn the same. Rockets are also tremendously more dangerous and volatile than an airplane. If 1 out of 10,000 launches results in a total loss of the vehicle, and all passengers on board - we're not going to do it. Rockets are simply not a safe mode of transportation - particularly when compared to aviation. Not to mention, you cannot launch with bad weather - or the possibility of bad weather... if it's too hot, or too cold, etc. It's just not a realistic option.
      - njarboe 6y ago
        Can't really know until you try. The physics does not prevent the possibility. Elon and the people at SpaceX are not just hand waving but actually working hard on making it a reality. Hope they do it. A lot of people are willing to pay $250k for a minor sub-orbit hop in the Virgin spacecraft. I bet there are millions of people who would pay, at least once, to fly on one of these flights in conjunction with a trip from New York to Beijing or London to Australia. $20k is not much more than a two week luxury safari. The comparison of the risk of rocket travel to the risk of helicopter travel is more realistic. That is the level of risk many wealthy people are willing to take to save time.
        Alupis 6y ago
        How many people actually go on luxury safari's? How many people will actually pay $250k for a spaceship ride? I know everyone says they would, but who actually has the means to do so? How many people will actually pay $20k for this fictitious rocket travel ride? That's the eqivilent of a decent brand new car. The reality is there's a finite amount of people who have the means to do actual space tourism. You run out of these people after a short while... and then you go bankrupt. And no, you cannot compare rockets with helicopter safety. It's well known helicopters aren't the most safe mode of transportation - but they do not spontaneously explode either. They are far safer than a rocket - arguing otherwise is disingenuous.

by Alupis 6y ago

justaguy88 6y ago

Spacex-Starship with a booster below it could put that weight suborbital to the other side of the world and should only cost a few million per flight since the hardware is reused each time

Alupis 6y ago
A few million? $90 Million is the current cost of a reusable Falcon Heavy[1]. Even if you cut that in half, that's still 10's of millions more expensive than flying a 747 between two destinations. For comparison, it costs - on the high end - $27,000 per hour of flight to operate a 747[2]. For a 12 hour flight, that's ~$324,000 of cost, or about 0.72% of the fictitious $45 Million-Per-Launch "Starship". There is no reality where flying a rocket is cheaper than an airplane. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_Heavy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_Heavy [2] https://www.opshots.net/2015/04/aircraft-operating-series-aircraft-operating-expenses/#:~:text=More%20engines%20lead%20to%20higher,%2415%2C374%20in%20fuel%20per%20hour https://www.opshots.net/2015/04/aircraft-operating-series-ai....
- njarboe 6y ago
  Rockets might not be cheaper but it could be close and they will beat the airplane by far on speed and views. Elon Musk is thinking/hoping that the cost for SpaceX to launch a 100 passenger Starship will be around $2 million[1] considering fuel and operational costs. The rockets will be fully reusable like airplanes and cost about the same to make. And, for long flights fuel use is similar. Hope it happens. Making rockets reusable was the key and SpaceX has been doing well with advancing that concept so far. [1]https://www.space.com/spacex-starship-flight-passenger-cost-elon-musk.html https://www.space.com/spacex-starship-flight-passenger-cost-...
  - Alupis 6y ago
    That's a whole lot of magical hand-waving right there. For starters, even at these fantasy numbers, that's still $20,000 per seat. Who needs and/or wants that? Very few people, as Concorde found out, and as Boom will soon learn the same. Rockets are also tremendously more dangerous and volatile than an airplane. If 1 out of 10,000 launches results in a total loss of the vehicle, and all passengers on board - we're not going to do it. Rockets are simply not a safe mode of transportation - particularly when compared to aviation. Not to mention, you cannot launch with bad weather - or the possibility of bad weather... if it's too hot, or too cold, etc. It's just not a realistic option.
    - njarboe 6y ago
      Can't really know until you try. The physics does not prevent the possibility. Elon and the people at SpaceX are not just hand waving but actually working hard on making it a reality. Hope they do it. A lot of people are willing to pay $250k for a minor sub-orbit hop in the Virgin spacecraft. I bet there are millions of people who would pay, at least once, to fly on one of these flights in conjunction with a trip from New York to Beijing or London to Australia. $20k is not much more than a two week luxury safari. The comparison of the risk of rocket travel to the risk of helicopter travel is more realistic. That is the level of risk many wealthy people are willing to take to save time.
      - Alupis 6y ago
        How many people actually go on luxury safari's? How many people will actually pay $250k for a spaceship ride? I know everyone says they would, but who actually has the means to do so? How many people will actually pay $20k for this fictitious rocket travel ride? That's the eqivilent of a decent brand new car. The reality is there's a finite amount of people who have the means to do actual space tourism. You run out of these people after a short while... and then you go bankrupt. And no, you cannot compare rockets with helicopter safety. It's well known helicopters aren't the most safe mode of transportation - but they do not spontaneously explode either. They are far safer than a rocket - arguing otherwise is disingenuous.