4 ms·

We shouldn't have to, no. Ask yourself why you think it should be necessary to always explicitly talk about slavery whenever we discuss the US constitution. Th

We shouldn't have to, no. Ask yourself why you think it should be necessary to always explicitly talk about slavery whenever we discuss the US constitution. Think about it this way: you don't rehash the rules of football (or "soccer", if you're from the US) every time you talk about a match. You don't go into the history of how those rules came to be what they are now. It's all part of the context and you only revisit that context when there's a reason to do so. The relationship of slavery and the US constitution should be part of the context everyone is aware of. That means it should be part of education everyone receives. Thinking that it needs explicit mention in every discussion of the constitution implies a belief that most people aren't aware of the context, and that is a problem that needs a proper solution.

throwanem 6y ago
Do you think most people are aware of that context?
cesarb 6y ago
> The relationship of slavery and the US constitution should be part of the context everyone is aware of. That means it should be part of education everyone receives. Why should someone in for instance Brazil know of these details of the USA history? The context for the Brazilian constitutions is part of the education everyone receives here in Brazil, but I don't recall learning anything about the USA constitution in school. Don't forget that HN has an international audience.
- CodeMage 6y ago
  That's a very interesting question! I think it shifts the goalposts a bit from what I've originally replied to, but I say that as a good thing, because it makes the discussion even more interesting and it allows me to better explain what I believe. I believe that we should live in a society with much better education. An essential ingredient of that education -- much more important than the mere learning of facts -- is the understanding of how to approach a discussion, how to think logically, how to question things, etc. A crucial element of that "essential ingredient" is the understanding of the importance of context and of being informed. I certainly didn't mean to imply that someone in Brazil should be taught, as part of their standard education, about the US constitution. But that puts the onus on them to get informed about the topic of the discussion before jumping into a discussion of it. And when participating in such a discussion, they should also probably indicate that they might not have the same understanding of the context that everyone else might have. In short, I believe that we should all receive the education that teaches us not only the relevant context of the things we are expected to be dealing with in the future, but also that it's our responsibility to be informed when participating in discussions.
claudeganon 6y ago
>Ask yourself why you think it should be necessary to always explicitly talk about slavery whenever we discuss the US constitution. Whatever your point, this is a strange hill to die on because slavery is explicitly discussed in the US Constitution. It was a foundational to the founding of the US (three-fifths compromise) and remains legal as a form of punishment to this very day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un...
benrbray 6y ago
In many discussions about "how things are and should be", one side often talks about the Constitution as an absolute source of truth, as if its authors were infallible. This is the reason why I believe slavery should be kept in mind in such discussions.
whytaka 6y ago
From my view, I think the habitual exercise in humility brings a refreshing and productive new spirit to the national discussion. Especially as we can see that the consequences of past mistakes linger on today. We should utterly destroy and banish the kind of national pride over symbols that carry with it the opportunity to become an unchallengeable chant. Talking about the founding of a country should be a bit like reciting the Miranda rights in an arrest. It's a moment for the citizens to remind themselves of their rights and responsibilities, of pride and humility.

throwanem 6y ago

Do you think most people are aware of that context?

cesarb 6y ago

> The relationship of slavery and the US constitution should be part of the context everyone is aware of. That means it should be part of education everyone receives. Why should someone in for instance Brazil know of these details of the USA history? The context for the Brazilian constitutions is part of the education everyone receives here in Brazil, but I don't recall learning anything about the USA constitution in school. Don't forget that HN has an international audience.

CodeMage 6y ago
That's a very interesting question! I think it shifts the goalposts a bit from what I've originally replied to, but I say that as a good thing, because it makes the discussion even more interesting and it allows me to better explain what I believe. I believe that we should live in a society with much better education. An essential ingredient of that education -- much more important than the mere learning of facts -- is the understanding of how to approach a discussion, how to think logically, how to question things, etc. A crucial element of that "essential ingredient" is the understanding of the importance of context and of being informed. I certainly didn't mean to imply that someone in Brazil should be taught, as part of their standard education, about the US constitution. But that puts the onus on them to get informed about the topic of the discussion before jumping into a discussion of it. And when participating in such a discussion, they should also probably indicate that they might not have the same understanding of the context that everyone else might have. In short, I believe that we should all receive the education that teaches us not only the relevant context of the things we are expected to be dealing with in the future, but also that it's our responsibility to be informed when participating in discussions.

claudeganon 6y ago

>Ask yourself why you think it should be necessary to always explicitly talk about slavery whenever we discuss the US constitution. Whatever your point, this is a strange hill to die on because slavery is explicitly discussed in the US Constitution. It was a foundational to the founding of the US (three-fifths compromise) and remains legal as a form of punishment to this very day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un...

benrbray 6y ago

In many discussions about "how things are and should be", one side often talks about the Constitution as an absolute source of truth, as if its authors were infallible. This is the reason why I believe slavery should be kept in mind in such discussions.

whytaka 6y ago

From my view, I think the habitual exercise in humility brings a refreshing and productive new spirit to the national discussion. Especially as we can see that the consequences of past mistakes linger on today. We should utterly destroy and banish the kind of national pride over symbols that carry with it the opportunity to become an unchallengeable chant. Talking about the founding of a country should be a bit like reciting the Miranda rights in an arrest. It's a moment for the citizens to remind themselves of their rights and responsibilities, of pride and humility.