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I'm generally a technologist however I am completely appalled at a private company getting the right to significantly impact humanity's view of the night sky, t

I'm generally a technologist however I am completely appalled at a private company getting the right to significantly impact humanity's view of the night sky, the original source of wonder.

avmich 6y ago
Yes, this is a kind of Wild West situation. We should figure out the best way out, ideally with all interested parties getting something good.
- leeoniya 6y ago
  except you as an individual could opt out of the original Wild West; this one, not so much. perhaps it's exactly like the Wild West from the viewpoint of Native Americans: we're taking your skys.
  - avmich 6y ago
    Yes, that's very unfortunate. I hesitate, however, concluding that we should ban satellite constellations on these grounds. Do you think that would be a good approach?
    - tekstar 6y ago
      Yes, unless they are invisible in the sky. Put a barrier in place to force innovation.
      - avmich 6y ago
        Anything in the sky is something which at least obstructs the view. If we have too many even black body satellites - which have zero reflection or emission in interesting spectral parts - we're still can't see through them. If we have too many of them, we still have a problem. So - theoretically - it's a choice between space flights and astronomy. Maybe there can be a more optimal solution than what we have today.
adonovan 6y ago
I agree, but we already conceded humanity's view of the daylit earth to private companies, so this is just another depressing step in the exact same direction.
mlindner 6y ago
It doesn't affect humanity's view of the night sky. It affects the ability of telescopes, especially wide-field telescopes, to be able to see the sky. These satellites aren't naked eye visible.
- DoingIsLearning 6y ago
  I am not sure what sort of light pollution you're experiencing for this not to visible in 'your' skies. I can assure you, I've been camping in a few different locations the past few weeks, the Starlink satellites are consistently visible without magnification. I was often star gazing and looking for shooting stars and I ended up confirming with a satelite tracker app, that most of the satellites I was spotting were Starlink trajectories. They are planning to deploy 12k satellites, just let that sink in.
  - mlindner 6y ago
    I was just out watching the meteor shower myself and it was quite dark skies (milky way visible) and didn't experience anything like that.
  - zaarn 6y ago
    The satellites deployed now and in future aren't reflective nearly as much. Only the early launches were.
    - DoingIsLearning 6y ago
      Fair point but you will still have 500+ Starlink satellites, without those mitigations, orbiting for the next 5 years or so until they fall from orbit. Equally important is what kind of assurance will we have that Amazon, baidu, facebook, or however follows next, will implement these counter measures?
Avamander 6y ago
"The original source of wonder" has already been ruined by the light pollution of any nearby city to be fair. I see bigger benefit in being able to ship new space telescopes and more ubiquitous internet access.
- serf 6y ago
  >I see bigger benefit in being able to ship new space telescopes and more ubiquitous internet access. but parent post brings up a good point -- it's not your sky, it's not my sky, it's our sky. Opinion without supporting arguments and consensus is inherently unfair when we're talking about an un-ownable concept being changed for all people.
  - Avamander 6y ago
    > Opinion without supporting arguments and consensus is inherently unfair when we're talking about an un-ownable concept being changed for all people. I'd say it goes both ways. What makes it "ours" in the first place, I don't think it gets an ownership at all.

I'm generally a technologist however I am completely appalled at a private company getting the right to significantly impact humanity's view of the night sky, the original source of wonder.

avmich 6y ago

Yes, this is a kind of Wild West situation. We should figure out the best way out, ideally with all interested parties getting something good.

leeoniya 6y ago
except you as an individual could opt out of the original Wild West; this one, not so much. perhaps it's exactly like the Wild West from the viewpoint of Native Americans: we're taking your skys.
- avmich 6y ago
  Yes, that's very unfortunate. I hesitate, however, concluding that we should ban satellite constellations on these grounds. Do you think that would be a good approach?
  - tekstar 6y ago
    Yes, unless they are invisible in the sky. Put a barrier in place to force innovation.
    - avmich 6y ago
      Anything in the sky is something which at least obstructs the view. If we have too many even black body satellites - which have zero reflection or emission in interesting spectral parts - we're still can't see through them. If we have too many of them, we still have a problem. So - theoretically - it's a choice between space flights and astronomy. Maybe there can be a more optimal solution than what we have today.

adonovan 6y ago

I agree, but we already conceded humanity's view of the daylit earth to private companies, so this is just another depressing step in the exact same direction.

mlindner 6y ago

It doesn't affect humanity's view of the night sky. It affects the ability of telescopes, especially wide-field telescopes, to be able to see the sky. These satellites aren't naked eye visible.

DoingIsLearning 6y ago
I am not sure what sort of light pollution you're experiencing for this not to visible in 'your' skies. I can assure you, I've been camping in a few different locations the past few weeks, the Starlink satellites are consistently visible without magnification. I was often star gazing and looking for shooting stars and I ended up confirming with a satelite tracker app, that most of the satellites I was spotting were Starlink trajectories. They are planning to deploy 12k satellites, just let that sink in.
- mlindner 6y ago
  I was just out watching the meteor shower myself and it was quite dark skies (milky way visible) and didn't experience anything like that.
- zaarn 6y ago
  The satellites deployed now and in future aren't reflective nearly as much. Only the early launches were.
  - DoingIsLearning 6y ago
    Fair point but you will still have 500+ Starlink satellites, without those mitigations, orbiting for the next 5 years or so until they fall from orbit. Equally important is what kind of assurance will we have that Amazon, baidu, facebook, or however follows next, will implement these counter measures?

Avamander 6y ago

"The original source of wonder" has already been ruined by the light pollution of any nearby city to be fair. I see bigger benefit in being able to ship new space telescopes and more ubiquitous internet access.

serf 6y ago
>I see bigger benefit in being able to ship new space telescopes and more ubiquitous internet access. but parent post brings up a good point -- it's not your sky, it's not my sky, it's our sky. Opinion without supporting arguments and consensus is inherently unfair when we're talking about an un-ownable concept being changed for all people.
- Avamander 6y ago
  > Opinion without supporting arguments and consensus is inherently unfair when we're talking about an un-ownable concept being changed for all people. I'd say it goes both ways. What makes it "ours" in the first place, I don't think it gets an ownership at all.