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The removal of the off-street parking mandate will also impact EV adoption. Parking is already difficult to find in many older Portland neighborhoods. Edit: Yo

The removal of the off-street parking mandate will also impact EV adoption. Parking is already difficult to find in many older Portland neighborhoods. Edit: You need a place to plug-in your EV at night.

TheGallopedHigh 6y ago
It stated that off street parking was optional...
- jasondclinton 6y ago
  Isn't that exactly the definition of the removal of a mandate?
  - TheGallopedHigh 6y ago
    Yes you’re right.
jeffbee 6y ago
That's just reality. EVs solve a specific aspect of cars but they still have the main problem: they are unreasonably large. The future of urban mobility is also its past: walking.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  I think this is easy to wish but hard to realize, considering the US population is rapidly aging. There is a balance between prioritizing pedestrians and cyclists while still supporting reasonable mobility for those not in their prime as well as daily freight/parcel services.
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    That's why you can't have a city based on cars. The very old cannot drive! I don't know why this perfectly obvious and globally well-known fact is so little-known to Americans.
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      There are entire retirement communities where the elderly use their golf carts and cars to get around (Sun City, FL, The Villages, FL, etc). Not only do the very old still drive, many prefer it because they’re old. Go talk to some old folks. I did when I put together a community funded Tesla Model 3 rideshare for them in a retirement community. The pool is their preferred exercise method to walking, especially in inclement weather (you ever walk a mile in the July Florida/Texas/Arizona heat? I have in all three, and I would not recommend it). EDIT: @jeffbee Responding here as HN has throttled my comment replies. > That's contrary to all available data. People over 70 are the least-likely group of adults to have drivers' licenses and have the highest public transport mode share or any group, take the fewest trips, and travel the smallest distance per day. The elderly are arguably the people who stand to gain the most from compact patterns of development. And yet, they choose to live in low to medium density areas that require an automobile versus urban areas. Behold the revealed preference! https://www.prb.org/which-us-states-are-the-oldest/ https://www.prb.org/which-us-states-are-the-oldest/ https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/time-series/demo/nia_county_maps.html https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/time-series/de... https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/time-series/demo/older-population/Figure%201%20Population%20Aged%2065%20and%20Over.pdf https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizat... https://i2.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/2019.01.29_metro_frey_millennial-migration_map2.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1 https://i2.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/...
      - jeffbee 6y ago
        That's contrary to all available data. People over 70 are the least-likely group of adults to have drivers' licenses and have the highest public transport mode share or any group, take the fewest trips, and travel the smallest distance per day. The elderly are arguably the people who stand to gain the most from compact patterns of development.
        kube-system 6y ago
        > People over 70 are the least-likely group of adults to have drivers' licenses Not in the US! It's pretty common for them to continue driving until they have enough accidents that they're dropped by their insurance company. https://www.businessinsider.com/young-people-drivers-licenses-decline-2016-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/young-people-drivers-license...
  - kiliantics 6y ago
    This is ridiculous. Yes, of course, provide alternatives for the less able but that is a very small population at any age group. My grandmother at age 86 gets around in Germany on foot and by bicycle just fine. She doesn't have a car and has access to the subway for longer distances. We can still heavily pedestrianise while also allowing for deliveries and the less able, there are many successful examples.
  - danans 6y ago
    > I think this is easy to wish but hard to realize, considering the US population is rapidly aging. The Florida retirement developments figured this out a long time ago: electric golf carts. If I recall correctly in one they even recently conducted a golf cart based political rally in support of a presidential candidate.
  - ska 6y ago
    "automobiles" is an idiosyncratic answer to "how do we deal with mobility issue of an aging population?".
    - baybal2 6y ago
      > "how do we deal with mobility issue of an aging population?" Exercise?
- derg 6y ago
  Walking and biking with some public transit to fill the gaps honestly. Outside of the obvious downsides to a car centric culture, the united states would definitely have healthier people if it were feasible to walk to more destinations. And I don't mean this just on an individual fitness level either. Getting out of the car and actually walking and interacting with people is an important community aspect, which this country severely lacks.
- jasondclinton 6y ago
  Bold claim. No city has managed to implement a walking-only mobility plan, yet. I'd like to see that future but it seems increasingly unlikely.
- crooked-v 6y ago
  I would say that the main problem with EVs right now isn't that they're large. You can get an electric Smart or Twizy and those aren't much more than driver's seats on wheels. And don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good: plenty of people who have full-size cars now would switch to something like one of those to save money once it was cheap enough... ...if not for the actual practical problem, which is that for a lot of people living in dense urban areas, there's no way to keep an EV charged up. Street parking and surface lots don't have chargers, old parking garages and almost all new parking garage construction doesn't have chargers, apartment buildings or shared houses with official or ad-hoc parking don't have chargers. I have that problem myself: I'd probably have replaced my car with an EV already if only I actually had somewhere to plug it in.
  - neutronicus 6y ago
    The parent comment is saying that all cars, even ones that are small for cars, are unacceptably large. The implication of their conclusion is that they even think the same of bicycles and electric scooters, which, after all, still take space to park. However I agree with the rest of your comment. My wife and I looked into plug-in hybrids (all the tax credit, none of the range anxiety) but there's no place to charge it so we just got a regular hybrid.
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      Eh, smaller electric cars don't help in practice because various regulations require buildings to come with a parking space of a certain size. Nobody is out there building smaller parking spaces for smaller cars. Indeed, Bay Area city Sunnyvale infamously outlawed "compact" parking spaces. Electric bicycles by contrast take up the same space as any other bicycle.
- d1zzy 6y ago
  Smart Electric seems as small as always. Goes about 65 miles (plenty for a suburban living needs, not going to work for travel of course).
  - driverdan 6y ago
    Smart pulled out of the US.
ohples 6y ago
What does this have to do with EVs? I agree that getting rid of government mandated parking will decrease government-subsidized car storage (which is good across the board). Sure that will affect EVs, but it will also affect ICEs equally.
- jdminhbg 6y ago
  > What does this have to do with EVs? Having a driveway/garage allows you to charge your EV while parked. An ICE you can just park wherever.
klyrs 6y ago
I hope this can be addressed at the municipal level through a program to install charge points in residential areas in response to local demand.
- toast0 6y ago
  There won't be local demand unless the charge points are already there. If you rely on on-street parking, and your neighborhood doesn't have chargers, you're not going to buy an EV and hope someone installs a charger. Maybe, you'll buy a plugin hybrid for other reasons, and there might be demand that way[1]. Of course, if you do have an EV already, then you have a lot harder time finding a new rental. [1] although, my plugin has very good range on gas, and next to nothing on a full charge, so I really only charge if it's free, gives me good parking, or to exercise my backup generator.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Then the people who can afford to adopt early get charging stations and the blue collar neighborhoods don't because they don't have as many EVs and then of course the politicians pile on by passing fuel taxes or registration surcharges because a) they're largely unaffected b) the state loves money and c) "only backwards hicks drive ICEs in 2030 anyway" (or something like that) and it becomes yet another regressive tax. I think the sentiment is good but I see it going wrong quickly unless you have some way to ensure that every neighborhood gets at least enough charging to adopt EVs in the first place.
nicoburns 6y ago
Perhaps it will lead to public transport infrastructure being built out. Well, we can dream.
alistairSH 6y ago
Why wouldn't the market solve this? If people want a parking spot with their new home, they'll demand the builder create one.
- jabl 6y ago
  Strange that a country that so strongly professes its belief in the power of free markets can't allow said free market to figure out the optimal amount of parking.
- makomk 6y ago
  The market will probably solve this, but it might not necessarily do so in a way you like. No widespread EV adoption and cars running on oil indefinitely because EVs are not viable for most people would be a perfectly valid free market solution to the problem.
  - alistairSH 6y ago
    That seems unlikely. If people demand off-street parking as part of a new home, they can also demand a charger. Or install one themselves. There is no prohibition on off-street parking linked to these changes. As for on-street parking, I don't feel particularly inclined to subsidize (via my tax payments) parking for the public's gross overuse of cars. I'd rather my tax dollars go to transit and alternative infrastructure.

TheGallopedHigh 6y ago

It stated that off street parking was optional...

jasondclinton 6y ago
Isn't that exactly the definition of the removal of a mandate?
- TheGallopedHigh 6y ago
  Yes you’re right.

jeffbee 6y ago

That's just reality. EVs solve a specific aspect of cars but they still have the main problem: they are unreasonably large. The future of urban mobility is also its past: walking.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
I think this is easy to wish but hard to realize, considering the US population is rapidly aging. There is a balance between prioritizing pedestrians and cyclists while still supporting reasonable mobility for those not in their prime as well as daily freight/parcel services.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  That's why you can't have a city based on cars. The very old cannot drive! I don't know why this perfectly obvious and globally well-known fact is so little-known to Americans.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    There are entire retirement communities where the elderly use their golf carts and cars to get around (Sun City, FL, The Villages, FL, etc). Not only do the very old still drive, many prefer it because they’re old. Go talk to some old folks. I did when I put together a community funded Tesla Model 3 rideshare for them in a retirement community. The pool is their preferred exercise method to walking, especially in inclement weather (you ever walk a mile in the July Florida/Texas/Arizona heat? I have in all three, and I would not recommend it). EDIT: @jeffbee Responding here as HN has throttled my comment replies. > That's contrary to all available data. People over 70 are the least-likely group of adults to have drivers' licenses and have the highest public transport mode share or any group, take the fewest trips, and travel the smallest distance per day. The elderly are arguably the people who stand to gain the most from compact patterns of development. And yet, they choose to live in low to medium density areas that require an automobile versus urban areas. Behold the revealed preference! https://www.prb.org/which-us-states-are-the-oldest/ https://www.prb.org/which-us-states-are-the-oldest/ https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/time-series/demo/nia_county_maps.html https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/time-series/de... https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/time-series/demo/older-population/Figure%201%20Population%20Aged%2065%20and%20Over.pdf https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizat... https://i2.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/2019.01.29_metro_frey_millennial-migration_map2.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1 https://i2.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/...
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      That's contrary to all available data. People over 70 are the least-likely group of adults to have drivers' licenses and have the highest public transport mode share or any group, take the fewest trips, and travel the smallest distance per day. The elderly are arguably the people who stand to gain the most from compact patterns of development.
      - kube-system 6y ago
        > People over 70 are the least-likely group of adults to have drivers' licenses Not in the US! It's pretty common for them to continue driving until they have enough accidents that they're dropped by their insurance company. https://www.businessinsider.com/young-people-drivers-licenses-decline-2016-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/young-people-drivers-license...
- kiliantics 6y ago
  This is ridiculous. Yes, of course, provide alternatives for the less able but that is a very small population at any age group. My grandmother at age 86 gets around in Germany on foot and by bicycle just fine. She doesn't have a car and has access to the subway for longer distances. We can still heavily pedestrianise while also allowing for deliveries and the less able, there are many successful examples.
- danans 6y ago
  > I think this is easy to wish but hard to realize, considering the US population is rapidly aging. The Florida retirement developments figured this out a long time ago: electric golf carts. If I recall correctly in one they even recently conducted a golf cart based political rally in support of a presidential candidate.
- ska 6y ago
  "automobiles" is an idiosyncratic answer to "how do we deal with mobility issue of an aging population?".
  - baybal2 6y ago
    > "how do we deal with mobility issue of an aging population?" Exercise?
derg 6y ago
Walking and biking with some public transit to fill the gaps honestly. Outside of the obvious downsides to a car centric culture, the united states would definitely have healthier people if it were feasible to walk to more destinations. And I don't mean this just on an individual fitness level either. Getting out of the car and actually walking and interacting with people is an important community aspect, which this country severely lacks.
jasondclinton 6y ago
Bold claim. No city has managed to implement a walking-only mobility plan, yet. I'd like to see that future but it seems increasingly unlikely.
crooked-v 6y ago
I would say that the main problem with EVs right now isn't that they're large. You can get an electric Smart or Twizy and those aren't much more than driver's seats on wheels. And don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good: plenty of people who have full-size cars now would switch to something like one of those to save money once it was cheap enough... ...if not for the actual practical problem, which is that for a lot of people living in dense urban areas, there's no way to keep an EV charged up. Street parking and surface lots don't have chargers, old parking garages and almost all new parking garage construction doesn't have chargers, apartment buildings or shared houses with official or ad-hoc parking don't have chargers. I have that problem myself: I'd probably have replaced my car with an EV already if only I actually had somewhere to plug it in.
- neutronicus 6y ago
  The parent comment is saying that all cars, even ones that are small for cars, are unacceptably large. The implication of their conclusion is that they even think the same of bicycles and electric scooters, which, after all, still take space to park. However I agree with the rest of your comment. My wife and I looked into plug-in hybrids (all the tax credit, none of the range anxiety) but there's no place to charge it so we just got a regular hybrid.
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    Eh, smaller electric cars don't help in practice because various regulations require buildings to come with a parking space of a certain size. Nobody is out there building smaller parking spaces for smaller cars. Indeed, Bay Area city Sunnyvale infamously outlawed "compact" parking spaces. Electric bicycles by contrast take up the same space as any other bicycle.
d1zzy 6y ago
Smart Electric seems as small as always. Goes about 65 miles (plenty for a suburban living needs, not going to work for travel of course).
- driverdan 6y ago
  Smart pulled out of the US.

ohples 6y ago

What does this have to do with EVs? I agree that getting rid of government mandated parking will decrease government-subsidized car storage (which is good across the board). Sure that will affect EVs, but it will also affect ICEs equally.

jdminhbg 6y ago
> What does this have to do with EVs? Having a driveway/garage allows you to charge your EV while parked. An ICE you can just park wherever.

klyrs 6y ago

I hope this can be addressed at the municipal level through a program to install charge points in residential areas in response to local demand.

toast0 6y ago
There won't be local demand unless the charge points are already there. If you rely on on-street parking, and your neighborhood doesn't have chargers, you're not going to buy an EV and hope someone installs a charger. Maybe, you'll buy a plugin hybrid for other reasons, and there might be demand that way[1]. Of course, if you do have an EV already, then you have a lot harder time finding a new rental. [1] although, my plugin has very good range on gas, and next to nothing on a full charge, so I really only charge if it's free, gives me good parking, or to exercise my backup generator.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Then the people who can afford to adopt early get charging stations and the blue collar neighborhoods don't because they don't have as many EVs and then of course the politicians pile on by passing fuel taxes or registration surcharges because a) they're largely unaffected b) the state loves money and c) "only backwards hicks drive ICEs in 2030 anyway" (or something like that) and it becomes yet another regressive tax. I think the sentiment is good but I see it going wrong quickly unless you have some way to ensure that every neighborhood gets at least enough charging to adopt EVs in the first place.

nicoburns 6y ago

Perhaps it will lead to public transport infrastructure being built out. Well, we can dream.

alistairSH 6y ago

Why wouldn't the market solve this? If people want a parking spot with their new home, they'll demand the builder create one.

jabl 6y ago
Strange that a country that so strongly professes its belief in the power of free markets can't allow said free market to figure out the optimal amount of parking.
makomk 6y ago
The market will probably solve this, but it might not necessarily do so in a way you like. No widespread EV adoption and cars running on oil indefinitely because EVs are not viable for most people would be a perfectly valid free market solution to the problem.
- alistairSH 6y ago
  That seems unlikely. If people demand off-street parking as part of a new home, they can also demand a charger. Or install one themselves. There is no prohibition on off-street parking linked to these changes. As for on-street parking, I don't feel particularly inclined to subsidize (via my tax payments) parking for the public's gross overuse of cars. I'd rather my tax dollars go to transit and alternative infrastructure.