I think most disenchantment with TDD comes from the second point that you notice. If one attempts to test every method of every class one ends up testing implem

I think most disenchantment with TDD comes from the second point that you notice. If one attempts to test every method of every class one ends up testing implementation details that are very much subject to change. Also, one can easily end up testing trivial points like 'is the processor still capable of adding two integers'. As you note in your third point it seems much more productive to test properties of code that the customer could potentially recognize as something they value. TDD really isn't dead for me. I do it pretty much every day. Both in work and in personal projects. I am not sure talks/conversations like these are very valuable. In the end it turns out that every practical question has the answer 'it depends'. Maybe the important thing to realize is that most questions do have the answer 'it depends' and that one can never stop using ones brain.