5 ms·

There is no law clearly defining private property rights on the moon, but you can bet that it's not going to be as easy as just showing up and starting to dig.

There is no law clearly defining private property rights on the moon, but you can bet that it's not going to be as easy as just showing up and starting to dig. A couple key quotes: "The UN says that private expeditions count as national activities and are covered by the treaty, which has been signed by all the major players. Lawyers disagreed and a second agreement - the 1979 International Moon Treaty - was drawn up to explicitly ban private ownership of lunar real estate." -http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2005/oct/24/spaceexploration.ideas http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2005/oct/24/spaceexplorati... "the activities of non-governmental entities in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall require authorization and continuing supervision by the appropriate State Party to the Treaty" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty Some good articles on trying to use the moon for private gain: http://www.slate.com/id/2202888/ http://www.slate.com/id/2202888/ http://www.space.com/6210-owns-moon.html http://www.space.com/6210-owns-moon.html

arctangent 16y ago
Great post. But I can't help wonder how governments would stop an organisation that has sufficient technology to go and mine the moon. A well-capitalised moon mining operation could maintain a base in space and send energy to Earth via laser beam (or whatever similar scientific approach you favour). I'm sure that governments could confiscate earth-bound assets of such enterprises, but they will presumably retaliate by keeping all their assets in space. I think that exploitation of space (as an activity) will completely screw with our concepts of "nation" and "government". Once a private enterprise can go mine asteroids they're going to have far more capital (i.e. money) than any nation on Earth.
- HelloBeautiful 16y ago
  >> Once a private enterprise can go mine asteroids they're going to have far more capital (i.e. money) than any nation on Earth. Private enterprises like the Rothschilds and Rockefellers have had more money than any nation on Earth for more than a century.
  - arctangent 16y ago
    I'm not convinced that you're correct, but let's assume so anyway. The point I am making is that technological superiority buys you far more than mere cash. This is why I referred to "capital" and parenthesised "money". Apologies if this wasn't clear enough.
    - HelloBeautiful 16y ago
      If you assume so, you'll see that the current masters of our universe will not allow a company to build the capital and technology to industrialize space, until they have the control packet. They are not stupid you see. Same thing happened with IBM, HP, Microsoft, Oracle, Google, etc. There were many other technologies that had the potential to change the global political system, like the Internet.
  - InnocentB 16y ago
    I've never seen any reference saying the Rothschilds or the Rockefellers ever had more than a few hundred billion in today's dollars. Compare to the US federal budget, which is over 3 trillion per year.
    - HelloBeautiful 16y ago
      I, and many others, believe Rothschilds have over 500 trillion. Plus 80% share in Bank Federal Reserve New York ...
      - waterlesscloud 16y ago
        I am currently neutral towards your assertion. Can you provide a link that tips the balance one way or the other?
        HelloBeautiful 16y ago
        Well buddy, it's up to you. My advice: do your own research and make your own conclusions. There are a number of books on Rothschilds and a ton of Google hits. Generally to understand the history of any advanced civilization you have to follow the money. And since 1815 Rothschild have had enough capital and reputation amongst private investors to decide who rules in most countries, which country has the credit to start a war, which country/alliance has the money to win a war, etc
- jrockway 16y ago
  A well-capitalised moon mining operation could maintain a base in space and send energy to Earth via laser beam (or whatever similar scientific approach you favour). I'm sure that governments could confiscate earth-bound assets of such enterprises, but they will presumably retaliate by keeping all their assets in space. So you're saying that I have a super-energetic space-based laser, and that I would retaliate by stockpiling energy? I'm pretty sure I would just aim the laser at some target of strategic value and watch it melt instead. Highly illegal, maybe... but what's the point of having a space-based laser if you don't get to unleash it from time to time upon your enemies?
kmfrk 16y ago
If you want to get an idea about what kind of clusterfuck is ahead, just look at the on-going Arctic dispute: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Territorial_claims_in_the_Arctic https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Territorial_c....
michaelpinto 16y ago
Just for the record there was a movement in '79 against the US signing the treaty: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L5_Society#Moon_Treaty.2C_decline_of_L5_Society_and_merger_with_National_Space_Institute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L5_Society#Moon_Treaty.2C_decli...
breathesalt 16y ago
Moon mining definitely violates space law.
- Jarred 16y ago
  Yeah, he's going to have to answer to the Galactic Confederacy if he wants to do this.
bfe 16y ago
I think it is going to be "as easy" as showing up and starting to dig. The lawyers will wrangle things out in the meantime, but that's a trivial task compared to mining the Moon.
dotBen 16y ago
Loads of people with crazy uncles and unimaginative grandmas ended up receiving titles to parcels of moon property! http://www.moonshop.com/ http://www.moonshop.com/ - warning: 1998 wants its web design back. They better not dig on my land!
- daniel1980fl 16y ago
  only $19.99 !!!
daniel1980fl 16y ago
"the activities of non-governmental entities in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall require authorization and continuing supervision by the appropriate State Party to the Treaty" thats just great!! aliens havent even landed, but they are already terrorists!! - second thought, perhaps thats why they dont want to reveal themselves: not to get jailtime!

arctangent 16y ago

Great post. But I can't help wonder how governments would stop an organisation that has sufficient technology to go and mine the moon. A well-capitalised moon mining operation could maintain a base in space and send energy to Earth via laser beam (or whatever similar scientific approach you favour). I'm sure that governments could confiscate earth-bound assets of such enterprises, but they will presumably retaliate by keeping all their assets in space. I think that exploitation of space (as an activity) will completely screw with our concepts of "nation" and "government". Once a private enterprise can go mine asteroids they're going to have far more capital (i.e. money) than any nation on Earth.

HelloBeautiful 16y ago
>> Once a private enterprise can go mine asteroids they're going to have far more capital (i.e. money) than any nation on Earth. Private enterprises like the Rothschilds and Rockefellers have had more money than any nation on Earth for more than a century.
- arctangent 16y ago
  I'm not convinced that you're correct, but let's assume so anyway. The point I am making is that technological superiority buys you far more than mere cash. This is why I referred to "capital" and parenthesised "money". Apologies if this wasn't clear enough.
  - HelloBeautiful 16y ago
    If you assume so, you'll see that the current masters of our universe will not allow a company to build the capital and technology to industrialize space, until they have the control packet. They are not stupid you see. Same thing happened with IBM, HP, Microsoft, Oracle, Google, etc. There were many other technologies that had the potential to change the global political system, like the Internet.
- InnocentB 16y ago
  I've never seen any reference saying the Rothschilds or the Rockefellers ever had more than a few hundred billion in today's dollars. Compare to the US federal budget, which is over 3 trillion per year.
  - HelloBeautiful 16y ago
    I, and many others, believe Rothschilds have over 500 trillion. Plus 80% share in Bank Federal Reserve New York ...
    - waterlesscloud 16y ago
      I am currently neutral towards your assertion. Can you provide a link that tips the balance one way or the other?
      - HelloBeautiful 16y ago
        Well buddy, it's up to you. My advice: do your own research and make your own conclusions. There are a number of books on Rothschilds and a ton of Google hits. Generally to understand the history of any advanced civilization you have to follow the money. And since 1815 Rothschild have had enough capital and reputation amongst private investors to decide who rules in most countries, which country has the credit to start a war, which country/alliance has the money to win a war, etc
jrockway 16y ago
A well-capitalised moon mining operation could maintain a base in space and send energy to Earth via laser beam (or whatever similar scientific approach you favour). I'm sure that governments could confiscate earth-bound assets of such enterprises, but they will presumably retaliate by keeping all their assets in space. So you're saying that I have a super-energetic space-based laser, and that I would retaliate by stockpiling energy? I'm pretty sure I would just aim the laser at some target of strategic value and watch it melt instead. Highly illegal, maybe... but what's the point of having a space-based laser if you don't get to unleash it from time to time upon your enemies?

kmfrk 16y ago

If you want to get an idea about what kind of clusterfuck is ahead, just look at the on-going Arctic dispute: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Territorial_claims_in_the_Arctic https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Territorial_c....

michaelpinto 16y ago

Just for the record there was a movement in '79 against the US signing the treaty: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L5_Society#Moon_Treaty.2C_decline_of_L5_Society_and_merger_with_National_Space_Institute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L5_Society#Moon_Treaty.2C_decli...

breathesalt 16y ago

Moon mining definitely violates space law.

Jarred 16y ago
Yeah, he's going to have to answer to the Galactic Confederacy if he wants to do this.

bfe 16y ago

I think it is going to be "as easy" as showing up and starting to dig. The lawyers will wrangle things out in the meantime, but that's a trivial task compared to mining the Moon.

dotBen 16y ago

Loads of people with crazy uncles and unimaginative grandmas ended up receiving titles to parcels of moon property! http://www.moonshop.com/ http://www.moonshop.com/ - warning: 1998 wants its web design back. They better not dig on my land!

daniel1980fl 16y ago
only $19.99 !!!

daniel1980fl 16y ago

"the activities of non-governmental entities in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall require authorization and continuing supervision by the appropriate State Party to the Treaty" thats just great!! aliens havent even landed, but they are already terrorists!! - second thought, perhaps thats why they dont want to reveal themselves: not to get jailtime!