4 ms·

“We're all just human beings, and most people join the police because they want to do the right thing.” I think in theory this is the idea, but I think in real

“We're all just human beings, and most people join the police because they want to do the right thing.” I think in theory this is the idea, but I think in reality it isn’t. I know four people I grew up with who became police and all four were not people I’d want to run into. One, in high school, stated that being a cop is the only job you can have where you are paid to beat people up (I argued boxing, not realizing he’d later be a cop). Another was the middle school bully. Another was a high school drug dealer — who I’m not sure ever stopped. And the one black guy I knew who became a cop was just a jerk. Maybe coincidence, but I have a feeling that the profession attracts exactly the mindset you don’t want as a cop. But people who don’t have that mindset probably don’t want to be cops.

codr7 6y ago
Same goes for politics, or any position of power/authority really, the people who want it the most are the worst alternatives.
nemo44x 6y ago
I can’t imagine it’s the most attractive job. Most people with options are going to do something else. The pay is generally ok in a lot of places but it’s a job where you’re going to work bad hours early on and for the most part you’re dealing with the uglier side of society. Your whole world view is going to be shifted negatively as you encounter so many people with drug issues, mental issues, violent people, etc. Who would want that? Who would want to spend their life interacting with this part of society day in and day out? I can only assume for many that take that job that it’s the best they can do. I interact with thoughtful, nice people every day to the point where I take it for granted. I’m not exposed to the desperate, degenerate, or depraved part of society. And I wouldn’t want to be.
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  To take this further, all available stats show that the average tenure of a police officer is <5 years. This is no surprise -- the hours are rough, the work can be exceptionally dangerous or stressful at times, pay is middling (generally 50-70k a year, tho often much lower in poorer counties), and there is an entire class of US society that is blatantly "fuck the police". Why get into fist-fights with crackheads at 4am when I can get an A+ and Network+ and answer tickets all day? Slightly less degrading and no one will try to shoot me. The result is that smart, qualified people rightly fuck-off to better paying or less stressful gigs. Additionally, there is no lateral move into higher levels of police leadership (unless you're transferring from another PD). So your mid-to-senior leadership is often whoever manages to stick around. See pg. 6 https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/wpor_ltpov.pdf https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/wpor_ltpov.pdf ("Why Police Officers Resign") also https://www.bls.gov/ooh/protective-service/police-and-detectives.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/protective-service/police-and-detect... (salary info)
themaninthedark 6y ago
Looking at what people are saying and thinking: Some people become cops because they want to help people, Some because they want power. Cops that are good have a tendency to end up dehumanizing members of the public whom they are meant to be helping due to a number of factors(ie. continuous exposure to negative elements). Currently the zeitgeist is defund the police, by either abolishing them or making the job lower paying and using those funds for social workers. I do not see the current proposed solutions fixing any of the problems.
- DetroitThrow 6y ago
  The solutions being taken up by moderates in both of the American political parties has been about removing liability protections in police actions and/or creating national standards for police oversight. I think those are the solutions that currently have widespread support and people have been discussing qualified immunity and body cameras at length on twitter and elsewhere.
  - IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago
    No. I suggest to read Franklin Zimring's 2017 book, When Police Kill. We are focused on problem cops but not problem departments. Not 1 person mentions the failure of local chain of command for setting bad/no policy to deal with police encounters. Immunity should be removed also from chain of command AND deparments for not producing directives that troops can follow. Why is it not codified to not shoot when a suspect is running? The ruelbook on proper rules of engagement is surprisingly weak at precinct level and above. Then we go about blaming cops for not having clear limitations on what they can or cannot do. Leadership loves the lack of accountability. They prefer to sacrificial troop lambs rather than themselves to roast. And we are happy to oblige them
  - themaninthedark 6y ago
    I can see that helping in the sense of holding police responsible once they have taken bad actions but I am not sure if that will help with power seeking actions. As an aside, we should remove liability protections for all government officials not just police.

codr7 6y ago

Same goes for politics, or any position of power/authority really, the people who want it the most are the worst alternatives.

nemo44x 6y ago

I can’t imagine it’s the most attractive job. Most people with options are going to do something else. The pay is generally ok in a lot of places but it’s a job where you’re going to work bad hours early on and for the most part you’re dealing with the uglier side of society. Your whole world view is going to be shifted negatively as you encounter so many people with drug issues, mental issues, violent people, etc. Who would want that? Who would want to spend their life interacting with this part of society day in and day out? I can only assume for many that take that job that it’s the best they can do. I interact with thoughtful, nice people every day to the point where I take it for granted. I’m not exposed to the desperate, degenerate, or depraved part of society. And I wouldn’t want to be.

blaser-waffle 6y ago
To take this further, all available stats show that the average tenure of a police officer is <5 years. This is no surprise -- the hours are rough, the work can be exceptionally dangerous or stressful at times, pay is middling (generally 50-70k a year, tho often much lower in poorer counties), and there is an entire class of US society that is blatantly "fuck the police". Why get into fist-fights with crackheads at 4am when I can get an A+ and Network+ and answer tickets all day? Slightly less degrading and no one will try to shoot me. The result is that smart, qualified people rightly fuck-off to better paying or less stressful gigs. Additionally, there is no lateral move into higher levels of police leadership (unless you're transferring from another PD). So your mid-to-senior leadership is often whoever manages to stick around. See pg. 6 https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/wpor_ltpov.pdf https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/wpor_ltpov.pdf ("Why Police Officers Resign") also https://www.bls.gov/ooh/protective-service/police-and-detectives.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/protective-service/police-and-detect... (salary info)

themaninthedark 6y ago

Looking at what people are saying and thinking: Some people become cops because they want to help people, Some because they want power. Cops that are good have a tendency to end up dehumanizing members of the public whom they are meant to be helping due to a number of factors(ie. continuous exposure to negative elements). Currently the zeitgeist is defund the police, by either abolishing them or making the job lower paying and using those funds for social workers. I do not see the current proposed solutions fixing any of the problems.

DetroitThrow 6y ago
The solutions being taken up by moderates in both of the American political parties has been about removing liability protections in police actions and/or creating national standards for police oversight. I think those are the solutions that currently have widespread support and people have been discussing qualified immunity and body cameras at length on twitter and elsewhere.
- IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago
  No. I suggest to read Franklin Zimring's 2017 book, When Police Kill. We are focused on problem cops but not problem departments. Not 1 person mentions the failure of local chain of command for setting bad/no policy to deal with police encounters. Immunity should be removed also from chain of command AND deparments for not producing directives that troops can follow. Why is it not codified to not shoot when a suspect is running? The ruelbook on proper rules of engagement is surprisingly weak at precinct level and above. Then we go about blaming cops for not having clear limitations on what they can or cannot do. Leadership loves the lack of accountability. They prefer to sacrificial troop lambs rather than themselves to roast. And we are happy to oblige them
- themaninthedark 6y ago
  I can see that helping in the sense of holding police responsible once they have taken bad actions but I am not sure if that will help with power seeking actions. As an aside, we should remove liability protections for all government officials not just police.