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> What I don't see many talk about is how much harm the belief that they harvest everything is, on top of just the actual deed itself. Snowden, Assange? They'

> What I don't see many talk about is how much harm the belief that they harvest everything is, on top of just the actual deed itself. Snowden, Assange? They've both talk(ed) at great length about the perils of a Society that will self-censor due to the fear of retribution that follows when everything one has said be it in text/phone/online is constantly held in bulk collection. Moreover, if anyone has followed what has occurred in China where dissenters are forced into re-education black op sites and are forced into public apologies, or in other cases they're disappeared altogether, you have what then appears like a very forceful form of cohesive group think. This occurred in HK prior to the passing of the NSL, people were essentially trying to scrub their online presence for fear of retroactive punishment from the CCP [1], who only hours after forcefully passing the bill to great local and international condemnation, started to arrest 'violators.' Which gives the CCP the appearance of a forceful enforcer of its policy writ large, at least on the surface with low hanging fruit like journalists and physicians speaking out about COVID on the mainland, but in reality China is wrought with seemingly permissible corruption provided you have any connection to the CCP. In this respect this isn't a East Vs West issue, but rather one of the oppressed and the oppressors, if Government is to exist at all, I think a mandate of constant surveillance and absolute financial transparency should be in order. I fear Humanity refuses to accept we must create alternatives to the Nation State model, which this pandemic and economic crises has clearly demonstrated to have failed in every conceivable metric. There are outliers, but they tend to be more city-states, which I'm not entirely averse to but can also have the very same entrenched power traps that the nation state model has. If anyone has the time I highly recommend Snowden s recent talk with Naomi Kilne on Vice [2] discussing the path forward to circumvent the Surveillance State/Economy that has been created by the Tech Industry that has only been incredibly sped up in the aftermath of the COVID pandemic and the protest against police violence/crime. At the end the people talent, many of whom hang out here, are the one's that build this tech not the corrupt politician(s), nor the VC big wig. Having them re-evaluate their positions is critical moving forward, as both conclude that this much needed detour will simply not occur from the Leadership. 1: https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Hong-Kongers-erase-digital-footprints-ahead-of-security-laws https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Hong-Kongers-erase-digital-... 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUnbhXtXixc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUnbhXtXixc

xster 6y ago
> in China where dissenters are forced into re-education black op sites and are forced into public apologies, or in other cases they're disappeared altogether Are you referencing something specific? > This occurred in HK prior to the passing of the NSL, people were essentially trying to scrub their online presence for fear of retroactive punishment from the CCP Not saying we should take their word for it but the letter of the law says it's not retroactive. https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3089166/national-security-law-hong-kong-not-retroactive-can-it-be https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3089166.... Do you have primary sources demonstrating otherwise?
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > Are you referencing something specific? Take your pick [1], (Li Zehua is worth noting) but they all stem from the same intimidation factor from the CCP, explicit documented details of the Mainlander examples are harder to track down using basic google searches, but they're out there if you look for it. I recommended a documentary called 'High Tech, Low Life' for first hand accounts of these in citizen journalism as they're being harrased by police, and one even has his passport revoked prior to boarding a plane to speak about censorship in the media in China. I saw a few of those first hand videos they make re-posted as gifs of mainlander women who denounced the CCP/Xi on social media in the past and are often simply reading from a script lambasting themselves as 'selfish' and an 'unruly, ungrateful child' of China. Are you seriously not aware that something as simple as being a follower of Falun gong was cause to be sent to the supposed 300+ re-education camps [2] for this 'crime.' The 'education' system in the mainland re-enforces that, as well. Compliance is not a choice, its demanded of you. > Do you have primary sources demonstrating otherwise? This specific case: where hired triads were not prosecuted but high profile Hongkongers are is a blatant example that it is in fact retro-active [3]. Lam Cheuk Ting, and 16 others have been arrested for their 'involvement' (which is to say recording others on the train being beaten on by unmasked assailants who went unpunished) in last year's 721 attack. 1: https://www.google.com/search?q=Chinese+citizens+forced+public+apology&hl=en&ei=y4lGX-LiBobPtQa2zqnACQ&start=0&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwii9L2gobnrAhWGZ80KHTZnCpg4HhDy0wN6BAgMECw&biw=1024&bih=620 https://www.google.com/search?q=Chinese+citizens+forced+publ... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re-education_through_labor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re-education_through_labor 3: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/25/world/asia/hongkong-arrests-lawmakers.html/ https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/25/world/asia/hongkong-arres... Sidenote: I may be arguing with a wumao, but I wrote this mainly for the benefit of anyone doubting this occurs at the hands of the CCP, as this poster has clearly tried to argue his pro CCP stance in his post history, in the hope that some of you FAANG workers come to realize what the implications of what you're building can look like in the hands of tyrannical governments. The US is far from innocent on the abuses of power throughout domestically and areound the World, but at least redress is a possible, albeit mainly from a lengthy and costly process that entails a significant and risky undertaking.

xster 6y ago

> in China where dissenters are forced into re-education black op sites and are forced into public apologies, or in other cases they're disappeared altogether Are you referencing something specific? > This occurred in HK prior to the passing of the NSL, people were essentially trying to scrub their online presence for fear of retroactive punishment from the CCP Not saying we should take their word for it but the letter of the law says it's not retroactive. https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3089166/national-security-law-hong-kong-not-retroactive-can-it-be https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3089166.... Do you have primary sources demonstrating otherwise?

Melting_Harps 6y ago
> Are you referencing something specific? Take your pick [1], (Li Zehua is worth noting) but they all stem from the same intimidation factor from the CCP, explicit documented details of the Mainlander examples are harder to track down using basic google searches, but they're out there if you look for it. I recommended a documentary called 'High Tech, Low Life' for first hand accounts of these in citizen journalism as they're being harrased by police, and one even has his passport revoked prior to boarding a plane to speak about censorship in the media in China. I saw a few of those first hand videos they make re-posted as gifs of mainlander women who denounced the CCP/Xi on social media in the past and are often simply reading from a script lambasting themselves as 'selfish' and an 'unruly, ungrateful child' of China. Are you seriously not aware that something as simple as being a follower of Falun gong was cause to be sent to the supposed 300+ re-education camps [2] for this 'crime.' The 'education' system in the mainland re-enforces that, as well. Compliance is not a choice, its demanded of you. > Do you have primary sources demonstrating otherwise? This specific case: where hired triads were not prosecuted but high profile Hongkongers are is a blatant example that it is in fact retro-active [3]. Lam Cheuk Ting, and 16 others have been arrested for their 'involvement' (which is to say recording others on the train being beaten on by unmasked assailants who went unpunished) in last year's 721 attack. 1: https://www.google.com/search?q=Chinese+citizens+forced+public+apology&hl=en&ei=y4lGX-LiBobPtQa2zqnACQ&start=0&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwii9L2gobnrAhWGZ80KHTZnCpg4HhDy0wN6BAgMECw&biw=1024&bih=620 https://www.google.com/search?q=Chinese+citizens+forced+publ... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re-education_through_labor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re-education_through_labor 3: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/25/world/asia/hongkong-arrests-lawmakers.html/ https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/25/world/asia/hongkong-arres... Sidenote: I may be arguing with a wumao, but I wrote this mainly for the benefit of anyone doubting this occurs at the hands of the CCP, as this poster has clearly tried to argue his pro CCP stance in his post history, in the hope that some of you FAANG workers come to realize what the implications of what you're building can look like in the hands of tyrannical governments. The US is far from innocent on the abuses of power throughout domestically and areound the World, but at least redress is a possible, albeit mainly from a lengthy and costly process that entails a significant and risky undertaking.