7 ms·

Florida is about to release 750 million mosquitoes genetically modified to die shortly after birth. Hopefully that's progress towards ending mosquitoes once and

Florida is about to release 750 million mosquitoes genetically modified to die shortly after birth. Hopefully that's progress towards ending mosquitoes once and for all. Source: https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/19/health/gmo-mosquitoes-approved-florida-scn-wellness/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/19/health/gmo-mosquitoes-approve...

zucked 6y ago
Is that such a good idea? I find the idea of futzing with nature's systems in this way a bit concerning.
- nemacol 6y ago
  https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/flesh-eating-worms-disease-containment-america-panama/611026/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/flesh-ea... A similar story that I found absolutely amazing is the story of the screwworm and its eradication from the US. Not the whole world, mind you (which feels foolish long term). I am not trying to make a point. This discussion made me think of it and I wanted to share.
- mrfusion 6y ago
  Malaria is nature too.
- culturestate 6y ago
  We’ve been committing mass murder of mosquitos for decades and, as far as I know, nobody has ever found evidence that it’s problematic. Mosquitos seem to be one of the few truly unnecessary (and universally unwanted) bits of the natural order.
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 6y ago
    I've read that some bird populations might suffer, but even ecologists will admit that mosquitos aren't particularly vital to any one species, and the elimination of mosquitos as a primary disease vector may even be a net-positive for the animal world.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - KMag 6y ago
      On top of that, only a small number of mosquito species carry malaria or dengue. Granted, I'm not sure how well we've studied cross-species fertility in mosquitoes (and thus risk of genetic solutions jumping the species barrier), but if we're able to very selectively exterminate this small number of species, my understanding is that the remaining mosquito species would expand to fill any ecological gaps.
  - zucked 6y ago
    I genuinely don't know the answer to this, but are they not a significant source of food for any predator such that their elimination wouldn't be noticed? I'm reluctant to be playing god on this front, especially in light of the fact that it seems like the insect population is not doing well, globally, and forms the base for a complex food chain.
    - modmans2nd 6y ago
      Bat eat mosquitoes
      - pzone 6y ago
        That’s more something bat enthusiasts say to get people to like the critters. In reality insectivorous bats primarily eat larger, easier to catch prey like moths.
      - em3rgent0rdr 6y ago
        Given the small size of mosquitoes, restrictions imposed on prey detectability by low frequency echolocation, and variable field metabolic rates, mosquitoes may not be available to or profitable for all bats. [1] [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3795000/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3795000/
      - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
        Sure, some do. But I don't think any bats eat only mosquitoes. As long as there are enough insects to eat, I think they'll be fine.
    - tombert 6y ago
      Did you not read the parent comment that you're? For decades we have been performing a semi-eradication effort for mosquitoes for decades, and we have not noticed a substantial change that can be considered a result of that. I understand hesitation to muck with nature, but I think it's sort of a privileged position to have when you live in an area where malaria and West Nile are not a serious risk. Malaria kills a lot of Africans every year (400,000+ [0]), and I'm not sure how much hesitation I'd have towards eradication if anyone in my family died from it. [0] https://www.who.int/gho/malaria/epidemic/deaths/en/ https://www.who.int/gho/malaria/epidemic/deaths/en/
  - tylerhou 6y ago
    Allegedly, there are only a few strains of mosquitos that bite humans/mammals. So if we remove those strains, the other ones will take their place.
- Junk_Collector 6y ago
  A hundred years ago, Malaria in the United States was bad enough to warrant a dedicated government office (It was folded into the CDC after WW2). This turned into a major eradication program through the use of DDT in the 1940's and by the 1950's Malaria was effectively eliminated from the states through the decimation of the mosquito population. Mosquitoes have of course rebounded over time, but malaria has not. Mosquito release programs like this are now several decades old and have shown high efficacy with few environmental side effects where they have been tried. It is certainly more environmentally friendly than DDT. Meanwhile, the benefits are enormous and if done successfully in Africa could be directly measured in terms of human suffering.
  - js2 6y ago
    Indeed, I just recently learned, this is why the CDC is in Atlanta: > On July 1, 1946 the Communicable Disease Center (CDC) opened its doors and occupied one floor of a small building in Atlanta. Its primary mission was simple yet highly challenging: prevent malaria from spreading across the nation. Armed with a budget of only $10 million and fewer than 400 employees, the agency’s early challenges included obtaining enough trucks, sprayers, and shovels necessary to wage war on mosquitoes. https://www.cdc.gov/about/history/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/about/history/index.html
    - blnqr 6y ago
      If only the CDC would stick to work on communicable diseases
      - dan-robertson 6y ago
        Their mandate changed. They are not the centre for disease control and prevention and they act in accordance with their mandate as a public health agency
        blnqr 6y ago
        Yes, I know. I have friends there who are fantastic, smart, committed civil servants working within their mandate and structure. I have a Master's in Public Policy from the Kennedy School, I'm not anti-government. But mission creep has hurt the CDC more than helped the nation. Public health is far too big a remit for any one agency.
- aaronblohowiak 6y ago
  There are multiple kinds of mosquitos only a few carry human-infectious disease. It is my understanding that displacing Aedis Egypti (probably spelled wrong sorry) would not materially wipe out the ecological niche
- libraryofbabel 6y ago
  Humans have been “futzing with nature’s systems” and transforming or destroying ecosystems since the agricultural revolution, or before. This particular futzing is targeted, subject to careful scientific study, and if scaled out globally, has a fair shot at ending one of the greatest causes of human misery in the history of the world. What exactly are you concerned about?
  - fpgaminer 6y ago
    I fall on the GMO is good side of the fence. I agree that careful science is far safer than the billion year "let's try random shit and see what sticks" experiment that nature runs. However, if I were to articulate my fears about experiments like these it would be to say that mankind's skill is a double edged sword. We've built a tool that quickly and effectively spreads and wipes out a species. That's the good side of the sword. In the off chance we messed up, missed something important... well now it's a quick and effective tragedy. That's the other side of the sword. For me the equation is tilted pro-GMO because I see the alternative of letting nature run its course as a 100% certainty that a current tragedy continues to unfold. So I'll continue to support GMO experiments like this. I just might have my fingers crossed, in case our D20 roll is bad and the kill gene jumps into the Zika virus and then into humans...
    - op00to 6y ago
      Genes don’t “jump” like that.
      - CWuestefeld 6y ago
        Sure they do: Horizontal gene transfer (HGT) or lateral gene transfer (LGT) is the movement of genetic material between unicellular and/or multicellular organisms other than by the ("vertical") transmission of DNA from parent to offspring (reproduction). HGT is an important factor in the evolution of many organisms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer
- newyankee 6y ago
  By that logic, no modern technology should be adopted. However i am sure ecologists have studied in depth the impact this might have on the food chain or other dependencies and have mostly found mosquitoes to be completely useless and hopefully the test cases prove the same.
- praveen9920 6y ago
  In the words of Dr. Ian Malcolm of Jurassic park "Life finds a way"
- ForHackernews 6y ago
  We have done it successfully with screwworms: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/flesh-eating-worms-disease-containment-america-panama/611026/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/flesh-ea...
- op00to 6y ago
  The mosquitos that cause malaria are invasive and not native to Florida. Eradicating them is returning the environment to it’s pre invasive state.
- rdevsrex 6y ago
  After recently re-watching the original Jurassic Park, I definitely agree with you :)
- CodeGlitch 6y ago
  I'm OK to futz with nature to stop children dying. See the "appeal to nature fallacy" [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature
bmcn2020 6y ago
2020 is already such a weird mish-mash of movie genres, I don't know if I want to add zombie-mosquito horror to that list
- social_quotient 6y ago
  Thx for saying this, I had the same thought a couple days ago and wasn’t sure where to make a joke (but serious) about it.
safog 6y ago
For anyone who wants a good documentary about gene drives, bio hacking, crispr etc., the netflix series unnatural selection is a great watch. https://www.netflix.com/title/80208910 https://www.netflix.com/title/80208910
pvaldes 6y ago
The plan worked fine in "Mimic". Collapsing the fisheries in Florida will be a surprising twist plot. Will they cast Sorvino this time?

zucked 6y ago

Is that such a good idea? I find the idea of futzing with nature's systems in this way a bit concerning.

nemacol 6y ago
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/flesh-eating-worms-disease-containment-america-panama/611026/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/flesh-ea... A similar story that I found absolutely amazing is the story of the screwworm and its eradication from the US. Not the whole world, mind you (which feels foolish long term). I am not trying to make a point. This discussion made me think of it and I wanted to share.
mrfusion 6y ago
Malaria is nature too.
culturestate 6y ago
We’ve been committing mass murder of mosquitos for decades and, as far as I know, nobody has ever found evidence that it’s problematic. Mosquitos seem to be one of the few truly unnecessary (and universally unwanted) bits of the natural order.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 6y ago
  I've read that some bird populations might suffer, but even ecologists will admit that mosquitos aren't particularly vital to any one species, and the elimination of mosquitos as a primary disease vector may even be a net-positive for the animal world.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - KMag 6y ago
    On top of that, only a small number of mosquito species carry malaria or dengue. Granted, I'm not sure how well we've studied cross-species fertility in mosquitoes (and thus risk of genetic solutions jumping the species barrier), but if we're able to very selectively exterminate this small number of species, my understanding is that the remaining mosquito species would expand to fill any ecological gaps.
- zucked 6y ago
  I genuinely don't know the answer to this, but are they not a significant source of food for any predator such that their elimination wouldn't be noticed? I'm reluctant to be playing god on this front, especially in light of the fact that it seems like the insect population is not doing well, globally, and forms the base for a complex food chain.
  - modmans2nd 6y ago
    Bat eat mosquitoes
    - pzone 6y ago
      That’s more something bat enthusiasts say to get people to like the critters. In reality insectivorous bats primarily eat larger, easier to catch prey like moths.
    - em3rgent0rdr 6y ago
      Given the small size of mosquitoes, restrictions imposed on prey detectability by low frequency echolocation, and variable field metabolic rates, mosquitoes may not be available to or profitable for all bats. [1] [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3795000/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3795000/
    - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
      Sure, some do. But I don't think any bats eat only mosquitoes. As long as there are enough insects to eat, I think they'll be fine.
  - tombert 6y ago
    Did you not read the parent comment that you're? For decades we have been performing a semi-eradication effort for mosquitoes for decades, and we have not noticed a substantial change that can be considered a result of that. I understand hesitation to muck with nature, but I think it's sort of a privileged position to have when you live in an area where malaria and West Nile are not a serious risk. Malaria kills a lot of Africans every year (400,000+ [0]), and I'm not sure how much hesitation I'd have towards eradication if anyone in my family died from it. [0] https://www.who.int/gho/malaria/epidemic/deaths/en/ https://www.who.int/gho/malaria/epidemic/deaths/en/
- tylerhou 6y ago
  Allegedly, there are only a few strains of mosquitos that bite humans/mammals. So if we remove those strains, the other ones will take their place.
Junk_Collector 6y ago
A hundred years ago, Malaria in the United States was bad enough to warrant a dedicated government office (It was folded into the CDC after WW2). This turned into a major eradication program through the use of DDT in the 1940's and by the 1950's Malaria was effectively eliminated from the states through the decimation of the mosquito population. Mosquitoes have of course rebounded over time, but malaria has not. Mosquito release programs like this are now several decades old and have shown high efficacy with few environmental side effects where they have been tried. It is certainly more environmentally friendly than DDT. Meanwhile, the benefits are enormous and if done successfully in Africa could be directly measured in terms of human suffering.
- js2 6y ago
  Indeed, I just recently learned, this is why the CDC is in Atlanta: > On July 1, 1946 the Communicable Disease Center (CDC) opened its doors and occupied one floor of a small building in Atlanta. Its primary mission was simple yet highly challenging: prevent malaria from spreading across the nation. Armed with a budget of only $10 million and fewer than 400 employees, the agency’s early challenges included obtaining enough trucks, sprayers, and shovels necessary to wage war on mosquitoes. https://www.cdc.gov/about/history/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/about/history/index.html
  - blnqr 6y ago
    If only the CDC would stick to work on communicable diseases
    - dan-robertson 6y ago
      Their mandate changed. They are not the centre for disease control and prevention and they act in accordance with their mandate as a public health agency
      - blnqr 6y ago
        Yes, I know. I have friends there who are fantastic, smart, committed civil servants working within their mandate and structure. I have a Master's in Public Policy from the Kennedy School, I'm not anti-government. But mission creep has hurt the CDC more than helped the nation. Public health is far too big a remit for any one agency.
aaronblohowiak 6y ago
There are multiple kinds of mosquitos only a few carry human-infectious disease. It is my understanding that displacing Aedis Egypti (probably spelled wrong sorry) would not materially wipe out the ecological niche
libraryofbabel 6y ago
Humans have been “futzing with nature’s systems” and transforming or destroying ecosystems since the agricultural revolution, or before. This particular futzing is targeted, subject to careful scientific study, and if scaled out globally, has a fair shot at ending one of the greatest causes of human misery in the history of the world. What exactly are you concerned about?
- fpgaminer 6y ago
  I fall on the GMO is good side of the fence. I agree that careful science is far safer than the billion year "let's try random shit and see what sticks" experiment that nature runs. However, if I were to articulate my fears about experiments like these it would be to say that mankind's skill is a double edged sword. We've built a tool that quickly and effectively spreads and wipes out a species. That's the good side of the sword. In the off chance we messed up, missed something important... well now it's a quick and effective tragedy. That's the other side of the sword. For me the equation is tilted pro-GMO because I see the alternative of letting nature run its course as a 100% certainty that a current tragedy continues to unfold. So I'll continue to support GMO experiments like this. I just might have my fingers crossed, in case our D20 roll is bad and the kill gene jumps into the Zika virus and then into humans...
  - op00to 6y ago
    Genes don’t “jump” like that.
    - CWuestefeld 6y ago
      Sure they do: Horizontal gene transfer (HGT) or lateral gene transfer (LGT) is the movement of genetic material between unicellular and/or multicellular organisms other than by the ("vertical") transmission of DNA from parent to offspring (reproduction). HGT is an important factor in the evolution of many organisms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer
newyankee 6y ago
By that logic, no modern technology should be adopted. However i am sure ecologists have studied in depth the impact this might have on the food chain or other dependencies and have mostly found mosquitoes to be completely useless and hopefully the test cases prove the same.
praveen9920 6y ago
In the words of Dr. Ian Malcolm of Jurassic park "Life finds a way"
ForHackernews 6y ago
We have done it successfully with screwworms: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/flesh-eating-worms-disease-containment-america-panama/611026/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/flesh-ea...
op00to 6y ago
The mosquitos that cause malaria are invasive and not native to Florida. Eradicating them is returning the environment to it’s pre invasive state.
rdevsrex 6y ago
After recently re-watching the original Jurassic Park, I definitely agree with you :)
CodeGlitch 6y ago
I'm OK to futz with nature to stop children dying. See the "appeal to nature fallacy" [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

bmcn2020 6y ago

2020 is already such a weird mish-mash of movie genres, I don't know if I want to add zombie-mosquito horror to that list

social_quotient 6y ago
Thx for saying this, I had the same thought a couple days ago and wasn’t sure where to make a joke (but serious) about it.

safog 6y ago

For anyone who wants a good documentary about gene drives, bio hacking, crispr etc., the netflix series unnatural selection is a great watch. https://www.netflix.com/title/80208910 https://www.netflix.com/title/80208910

pvaldes 6y ago

The plan worked fine in "Mimic". Collapsing the fisheries in Florida will be a surprising twist plot. Will they cast Sorvino this time?