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It’s not. They don’t have any data of their own. They offer a data integration platform and then a slate of apps on top of that platform for institutions to pe

It’s not. They don’t have any data of their own. They offer a data integration platform and then a slate of apps on top of that platform for institutions to perform analysis on their own data. They do make a few plugins that mine social media and other “open” sources but have to do a funny ownership dance so it’s the institution that is breaching the TOS rather than them.

NeutronStar 6y ago
Ok, but the problem is aggregating all of the data under 1 platform. Whether you own the data or not isn't relevant when you still have access and show that data to your users.
ptmcc 6y ago
> a funny ownership dance Oh well ok then, they don't do any data collection or mining, they just sell the tools to empower three-letter agencies to do it more effectively. Conscience is clear then!
- bhupy 6y ago
  Genuinely curious: at what point is it "okay" to create data analysis tools that might be used by 3-letter agencies? I imagine that before Palantir came around, the analysts at these agencies did what most other analysts anywhere do and used Excel to create sophisticated pivot tables when working on {insert defense operation}. Where does it stop being okay? To the extent that it even matters, Palantir appears to at least own up to the fact that they are used by governments.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    It stops being okay when the analysis tools are built specially for the 3 letter agencies instead of for another socially useful purpose.
    - bhupy 6y ago
      Per this S-1 filing, Palantir appears to be used by the private sector as well. > socially useful purpose Who decides what's "socially useful"?
      - mrgordon 6y ago
        Their early investors were the CIA. I know the point you’re trying to make but Palantir isn’t really in the gray when they have been basically a branch of the spy agencies since the beginning
        bhupy 6y ago
        Sure, but their current operations appear to be more diversified than that -> https://www.palantir.com/solutions/ https://www.palantir.com/solutions/. Even per their S-1, their market sizing shows "Commercial" to be a substantial proportion of their aspirations: > Commercial. Our estimate of the TAM in the commercial sector is $56 billion. > Government. We estimate the TAM in the government sector, including government agencies in the United States, its allies, and in other countries abroad whose values align with liberal democracies, is $63 billion.
        mrgordon 6y ago
        Well sure they point to a theoretical market that’s big but it isn’t where their revenue comes from now > The company’s top three customers — which aren’t disclosed — together represented 28% of the company’s revenue for 2019. Its top twenty customers represented 67% of total revenues, with each one of those customers averaging $24.8 million in revenue. They admit they count every single government sub-agency as a different customer (their example is NIH and the CDC would count separately despite the same parent organization) so the top 25 is basically just governments. There is incredible revenue concentration there.
        bhupy 6y ago
        Where in this filing does it say that their top 25 customers are governments? And where in this filing are the current revenue numbers classified as government vs non-government? Also, it’s important to consider their TAM projections because 1) those are the only numbers we have in this S-1 that specifically delineates government vs non-government, and 2) their aspirational valuation is predicated on this TAM. It’s who they think they will grow up to become.

NeutronStar 6y ago

Ok, but the problem is aggregating all of the data under 1 platform. Whether you own the data or not isn't relevant when you still have access and show that data to your users.

ptmcc 6y ago

> a funny ownership dance Oh well ok then, they don't do any data collection or mining, they just sell the tools to empower three-letter agencies to do it more effectively. Conscience is clear then!

bhupy 6y ago
Genuinely curious: at what point is it "okay" to create data analysis tools that might be used by 3-letter agencies? I imagine that before Palantir came around, the analysts at these agencies did what most other analysts anywhere do and used Excel to create sophisticated pivot tables when working on {insert defense operation}. Where does it stop being okay? To the extent that it even matters, Palantir appears to at least own up to the fact that they are used by governments.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  It stops being okay when the analysis tools are built specially for the 3 letter agencies instead of for another socially useful purpose.
  - bhupy 6y ago
    Per this S-1 filing, Palantir appears to be used by the private sector as well. > socially useful purpose Who decides what's "socially useful"?
    - mrgordon 6y ago
      Their early investors were the CIA. I know the point you’re trying to make but Palantir isn’t really in the gray when they have been basically a branch of the spy agencies since the beginning
      - bhupy 6y ago
        Sure, but their current operations appear to be more diversified than that -> https://www.palantir.com/solutions/ https://www.palantir.com/solutions/. Even per their S-1, their market sizing shows "Commercial" to be a substantial proportion of their aspirations: > Commercial. Our estimate of the TAM in the commercial sector is $56 billion. > Government. We estimate the TAM in the government sector, including government agencies in the United States, its allies, and in other countries abroad whose values align with liberal democracies, is $63 billion.
        mrgordon 6y ago
        Well sure they point to a theoretical market that’s big but it isn’t where their revenue comes from now > The company’s top three customers — which aren’t disclosed — together represented 28% of the company’s revenue for 2019. Its top twenty customers represented 67% of total revenues, with each one of those customers averaging $24.8 million in revenue. They admit they count every single government sub-agency as a different customer (their example is NIH and the CDC would count separately despite the same parent organization) so the top 25 is basically just governments. There is incredible revenue concentration there.
        bhupy 6y ago
        Where in this filing does it say that their top 25 customers are governments? And where in this filing are the current revenue numbers classified as government vs non-government? Also, it’s important to consider their TAM projections because 1) those are the only numbers we have in this S-1 that specifically delineates government vs non-government, and 2) their aspirational valuation is predicated on this TAM. It’s who they think they will grow up to become.