6 ms·

It's a bit weird that Firefox deprecated all extensions while moving to a simpler API with a more limited surface area, in order to allow changes to be made mor

It's a bit weird that Firefox deprecated all extensions while moving to a simpler API with a more limited surface area, in order to allow changes to be made more easily in the future to the underlying browser without breaking compatibility with extensions, and then proceeded to make changes to the underlying browser which break compatibility with all extensions using that API.

sp332 6y ago
It's more that they moved to a new codebase that is not yet feature-complete. It will gain compatible functionality over time.
- pmlnr 6y ago
  You still believe in miracles?
- tsimionescu 6y ago
  If it's not feature complete, how can it be an official release??
  - blibble 6y ago
    this is a problem with Mozilla in general they gradually remove features essential 1-2% of the userbase and now they're getting to the point they have no users at all the main reason to use Firefox over Chrome on mobile is the extension support, and now that's gone too
    - vlod 6y ago
      >the main reason to use Firefox over Chrome on mobile is >the extension support, and now that's gone too That's not quite accurate. From "Firefox for Android upgrade FAQs" https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-android-upgrade-faqs https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-android-upgrade... Supported add-ons (note: currently, a limited number of Recommended Extensions are supported. Here's the list: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?recommended=true&type=extension https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?recommended... Things like uBlock-Origin etc are there, so I'm happy.
      - neiman 6y ago
        It's a limited unsatisfying list for me. Allowing only extensions monitored by Mozilla is against the great free internet spirit that Mozilla was functioning under till now. If I want only monitored stuff I may as well switch to Google...
        ifmpx 6y ago
        > If I want only monitored stuff I may as well switch to Google... I was thinking this to myself. I use firefox on android because I have a set of addons that I refuse to browse the web without. If firefox can't run the addons I want, I might as well switch to the builtin browser instead.
        anonymousab 6y ago
        Mozilla seems to be banking on "a freer/opener web" being a convincing selling point on its own. But at that point, they might as well just rebadge chromium like all the others. Corralling power users into a separate app version ala Nightly now comes across as a vain attempt at creating a longterm offramp to avoid backlash. It really makes you think "what's the point?" about it all.
        vlod 6y ago
        Well the built in browser is Chrome (on Android). Come back and let me know how that works. :) Maybe you've forgotten the cesspool that the web has become, with all the crappy adverts and popups. I'm just glad I can run ublock-origin, the rest I'll wait for a bit.
        vlod 6y ago
        >Allowing only extensions monitored by Mozilla is against the great free internet spirit that Mozilla was functioning under till now. I feel the same way.. I would suggest to a have a LITTLE patience. They'll most likely get more extensions going forwards or people will fix the ones you use.
    - liability 6y ago
      But their telemetry says each of the thousand features removed is a mere papercut!
      - Feolkin 6y ago
        I feel like one of the worst things to happen to software engineering is telemetry. It just leads to companies cutting all the features that I like.
        kikokikokiko 6y ago
        Power users in general will dsable telemetry, so the bulk of the data these companies get come from the patterns of usage of the lowest common denominator users. It's no surprise then that everything that appeals to power users is slowly but surely removed from future iterations of the software in question. Mozilla is just another dumb corporation circling the drain of death at this point.
        liability 6y ago
        In my experience, people often make decisions first then go trawling through sea of data, selecting metrics which support their decision and ignoring those that contradict it. Intentionally or not, much of this stuff is essentially p-hacked.
  - Jonnax 6y ago
    It's significantly faster and ublock origin works. Seems like getting parity would take a year+ So I guess they decided it's worth dumping the current code base to focus on the rewrite.
    - johannes1234321 6y ago
      Especially since they now get an outcry and see which features are actually required and which others, they could have invested time on are not required. In the FAQ they announced a few features "within three weeks" which for me is the thing about "most frequent pages" being shown on a new tab. Quite a habit of mine to use that ...
      - Macha 6y ago
        Relying on removing features then seeing which ones get you yelled at is not a great approach to building trust in your users. when you classify adding to tickets about the missing features with comments like "I really need this feature and it's omission is causing me to look elsewhere" as unproductive (or even in other projects taking a similar approach some have called it harassment) at the same time, it's a bad look.
    - coffeeaddicted 6y ago
      Just got the new Firefox on my tablet earlier and ublock origin did unfortunately not work well after the update. Ads are no longer removed, but replaced by whitespace with a loading icon in the middle. I'm still considering if I find that more or less annoying than browsing with ads enabled.
      - tpxl 6y ago
        That may be a uBlock issue. On youtube at least, sometimes the ads don't get skipped, but you get a white "video" you can skip instead.
      - gorhill 6y ago
        > replaced by whitespace with a loading icon in the middle This seems to be a filter issue, please submit cases to filter list maintainers. Note that "Ignore generic cosmetic filters" is checked by default in Firefox for Android, it's something you may want to toggle.[1] * * * [1] https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dashboard:-Filter-lists https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dashboard:-Filter-lis...
  - sp332 6y ago
    Yeah as a long-time Firefox on Android user, I'm not happy about the current state of things. Excitement about ~~~the future~~~ wore off about 2-3 years ago and things are still not great overall.
    - kikokikokiko 6y ago
      Unfortunately, since Brendan Eich left it's being downhill. I know I'll get downvoted to pieces, since this is Hackernews, but so be it. When an organization starts prioritizing anything other than what is best for the product and it's users and starts talking about "social" stuff, say goodbye to efficiency and technical brilliance.
      - anoncake 6y ago
        > Unfortunately, since Brendan Eich left it's being downhill. I know I'll get downvoted to pieces, since this is Hackernews, but so be it. I would have upvoted you, but as requested, I downvoted you instead.
  - zamadatix 6y ago
    The previous codebase was left at 68 ESR so the team could work on the new codebase. 68 ESR is now EoL. So now the question is do they try to spend time dragging the legacy release along into the future and continue to attrition users (FF mobile is already down to ~0.5% browser share) or bet that continuing to focus on the version based on the new codebase will yield better outcomes even if it doesn't have all of the features of the old version.
    - tsimionescu 6y ago
      > bet that continuing to focus on the version based on the new codebase will yield better outcomes even if it doesn't have all of the features of the old version. Ah, executing the famous Netscape strategy, are they? If they were attritioning users already, I shudder to think what will happen with almost no extensions for a few... Weeks? Months? And, if the article is right, also a good number of stability issues.
      - Vinnl 6y ago
        The few extensions they do have already give them a major leg up over the most commonly used browsers, which offer... 0.
        lawl 6y ago
        Multiple chromium forks are working at integrating chrome (desktop) extensions (and some already have experimental support). As soon as they do, there's really no point in using firefox anymore. Especially since they seem to give zero fucks about my workflow, I give zero fucks about them.
- anonymousab 6y ago
  >It will gain compatible functionality over time. Based on a few GitHub issue and Mozilla discourse responses, it seems like the whitelist approach is here to stay.
  - jml7c5 6y ago
    Can you link to these?
    - Fej 6y ago
      Here is the relevant Discourse discussion: https://discourse.mozilla.org/t/add-on-support-in-new-firefox-for-android/53488/ https://discourse.mozilla.org/t/add-on-support-in-new-firefo... and the relevant GitHub issue, which was locked due to too many people complaining: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/11308 https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/11308 which was closed and moved into this issue, which was locked immediately as this change is... rather unpopular, as is their proposed solution: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/14034 https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/14034
      - glomph 6y ago
        The situation is frustrating when there have been Firefox developers on this site assuring us that there will be full extension support eventually. This no longer seems to be the case.
        FeepingCreature 6y ago
        They said that about Addons on Desktop too...
- rasz 6y ago
  If I got a dollar every time I heard that ... Id had like 6 dollars now.
- csande17 6y ago
  It's interesting that Mozilla went for a ground-up rewrite of their browser. Did they learn nothing from Netscape? https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-...

sp332 6y ago

It's more that they moved to a new codebase that is not yet feature-complete. It will gain compatible functionality over time.

pmlnr 6y ago
You still believe in miracles?
tsimionescu 6y ago
If it's not feature complete, how can it be an official release??
- blibble 6y ago
  this is a problem with Mozilla in general they gradually remove features essential 1-2% of the userbase and now they're getting to the point they have no users at all the main reason to use Firefox over Chrome on mobile is the extension support, and now that's gone too
  - vlod 6y ago
    >the main reason to use Firefox over Chrome on mobile is >the extension support, and now that's gone too That's not quite accurate. From "Firefox for Android upgrade FAQs" https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-android-upgrade-faqs https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-android-upgrade... Supported add-ons (note: currently, a limited number of Recommended Extensions are supported. Here's the list: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?recommended=true&type=extension https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?recommended... Things like uBlock-Origin etc are there, so I'm happy.
    - neiman 6y ago
      It's a limited unsatisfying list for me. Allowing only extensions monitored by Mozilla is against the great free internet spirit that Mozilla was functioning under till now. If I want only monitored stuff I may as well switch to Google...
      - ifmpx 6y ago
        > If I want only monitored stuff I may as well switch to Google... I was thinking this to myself. I use firefox on android because I have a set of addons that I refuse to browse the web without. If firefox can't run the addons I want, I might as well switch to the builtin browser instead.
        anonymousab 6y ago
        Mozilla seems to be banking on "a freer/opener web" being a convincing selling point on its own. But at that point, they might as well just rebadge chromium like all the others. Corralling power users into a separate app version ala Nightly now comes across as a vain attempt at creating a longterm offramp to avoid backlash. It really makes you think "what's the point?" about it all.
        vlod 6y ago
        Well the built in browser is Chrome (on Android). Come back and let me know how that works. :) Maybe you've forgotten the cesspool that the web has become, with all the crappy adverts and popups. I'm just glad I can run ublock-origin, the rest I'll wait for a bit.
      - vlod 6y ago
        >Allowing only extensions monitored by Mozilla is against the great free internet spirit that Mozilla was functioning under till now. I feel the same way.. I would suggest to a have a LITTLE patience. They'll most likely get more extensions going forwards or people will fix the ones you use.
  - liability 6y ago
    But their telemetry says each of the thousand features removed is a mere papercut!
    - Feolkin 6y ago
      I feel like one of the worst things to happen to software engineering is telemetry. It just leads to companies cutting all the features that I like.
      - kikokikokiko 6y ago
        Power users in general will dsable telemetry, so the bulk of the data these companies get come from the patterns of usage of the lowest common denominator users. It's no surprise then that everything that appeals to power users is slowly but surely removed from future iterations of the software in question. Mozilla is just another dumb corporation circling the drain of death at this point.
      - liability 6y ago
        In my experience, people often make decisions first then go trawling through sea of data, selecting metrics which support their decision and ignoring those that contradict it. Intentionally or not, much of this stuff is essentially p-hacked.
- Jonnax 6y ago
  It's significantly faster and ublock origin works. Seems like getting parity would take a year+ So I guess they decided it's worth dumping the current code base to focus on the rewrite.
  - johannes1234321 6y ago
    Especially since they now get an outcry and see which features are actually required and which others, they could have invested time on are not required. In the FAQ they announced a few features "within three weeks" which for me is the thing about "most frequent pages" being shown on a new tab. Quite a habit of mine to use that ...
    - Macha 6y ago
      Relying on removing features then seeing which ones get you yelled at is not a great approach to building trust in your users. when you classify adding to tickets about the missing features with comments like "I really need this feature and it's omission is causing me to look elsewhere" as unproductive (or even in other projects taking a similar approach some have called it harassment) at the same time, it's a bad look.
  - coffeeaddicted 6y ago
    Just got the new Firefox on my tablet earlier and ublock origin did unfortunately not work well after the update. Ads are no longer removed, but replaced by whitespace with a loading icon in the middle. I'm still considering if I find that more or less annoying than browsing with ads enabled.
    - tpxl 6y ago
      That may be a uBlock issue. On youtube at least, sometimes the ads don't get skipped, but you get a white "video" you can skip instead.
    - gorhill 6y ago
      > replaced by whitespace with a loading icon in the middle This seems to be a filter issue, please submit cases to filter list maintainers. Note that "Ignore generic cosmetic filters" is checked by default in Firefox for Android, it's something you may want to toggle.[1] * * * [1] https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dashboard:-Filter-lists https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dashboard:-Filter-lis...
- sp332 6y ago
  Yeah as a long-time Firefox on Android user, I'm not happy about the current state of things. Excitement about ~~~the future~~~ wore off about 2-3 years ago and things are still not great overall.
  - kikokikokiko 6y ago
    Unfortunately, since Brendan Eich left it's being downhill. I know I'll get downvoted to pieces, since this is Hackernews, but so be it. When an organization starts prioritizing anything other than what is best for the product and it's users and starts talking about "social" stuff, say goodbye to efficiency and technical brilliance.
    - anoncake 6y ago
      > Unfortunately, since Brendan Eich left it's being downhill. I know I'll get downvoted to pieces, since this is Hackernews, but so be it. I would have upvoted you, but as requested, I downvoted you instead.
- zamadatix 6y ago
  The previous codebase was left at 68 ESR so the team could work on the new codebase. 68 ESR is now EoL. So now the question is do they try to spend time dragging the legacy release along into the future and continue to attrition users (FF mobile is already down to ~0.5% browser share) or bet that continuing to focus on the version based on the new codebase will yield better outcomes even if it doesn't have all of the features of the old version.
  - tsimionescu 6y ago
    > bet that continuing to focus on the version based on the new codebase will yield better outcomes even if it doesn't have all of the features of the old version. Ah, executing the famous Netscape strategy, are they? If they were attritioning users already, I shudder to think what will happen with almost no extensions for a few... Weeks? Months? And, if the article is right, also a good number of stability issues.
    - Vinnl 6y ago
      The few extensions they do have already give them a major leg up over the most commonly used browsers, which offer... 0.
      - lawl 6y ago
        Multiple chromium forks are working at integrating chrome (desktop) extensions (and some already have experimental support). As soon as they do, there's really no point in using firefox anymore. Especially since they seem to give zero fucks about my workflow, I give zero fucks about them.
anonymousab 6y ago
>It will gain compatible functionality over time. Based on a few GitHub issue and Mozilla discourse responses, it seems like the whitelist approach is here to stay.
- jml7c5 6y ago
  Can you link to these?
  - Fej 6y ago
    Here is the relevant Discourse discussion: https://discourse.mozilla.org/t/add-on-support-in-new-firefox-for-android/53488/ https://discourse.mozilla.org/t/add-on-support-in-new-firefo... and the relevant GitHub issue, which was locked due to too many people complaining: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/11308 https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/11308 which was closed and moved into this issue, which was locked immediately as this change is... rather unpopular, as is their proposed solution: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/14034 https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/14034
    - glomph 6y ago
      The situation is frustrating when there have been Firefox developers on this site assuring us that there will be full extension support eventually. This no longer seems to be the case.
      - FeepingCreature 6y ago
        They said that about Addons on Desktop too...
rasz 6y ago
If I got a dollar every time I heard that ... Id had like 6 dollars now.
csande17 6y ago
It's interesting that Mozilla went for a ground-up rewrite of their browser. Did they learn nothing from Netscape? https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-...