4 ms·

This is why the defund the police people really need a better slogan. You can argue that the police should work differently than they do, but it's just obviousl

This is why the defund the police people really need a better slogan. You can argue that the police should work differently than they do, but it's just obviously stupid to not have police.

GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
"Defund the police" refers to trimming bloated budgets and fully funding other programs that reduce crime such as funding inner city schools, child care for poor parents, etc.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  Anecdotally from seeing discussions online and interviews on the news (which to be fair has some sample bias that will emphasize more extreme beliefs), a non negligible number of people who say "Defund the police" believe that police should be abolished.
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    There's a case to be made that while a city needs police it maybe doesn't need _these_ police. At some point an organization is so corrupt that it cannot be reformed. I have no problem with plans to reshape law enforcement through complete dissolution of current police departments.
- cwhiz 6y ago
  Then come up with a different slogan? There isn’t any ambiguity in the word “defund.”
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- geodel 6y ago
  Seems like 'Agile' then. Everytime agile bullshittery falls flat someone invariably comes to explain how people are not doing agile right.
- daenz 6y ago
  Do you find that you frequently need to explain "defund the police" to people? Don't you think that's a problem, given that a slogan is supposed to convey a clear message that is easy for everyone to understand what you're about?
  - GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
    It's a conversation starter. It's definitely sparked a lot of meaningful dialogues about the state of policing in the US and how to make it better for all involved.
    - LegitShady 6y ago
      I believe it's a conversation ender rather than starter. When people are throwing around a abolishing the police and using violent riots to push it that ends conversation rather than starts it.
      - GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
        It hasn't seemed to stop you from reading and even engaging with this conversation. I would think it's doing it's job as a slogan just fine. Of course you shouldn't forget the context of these "violent" riots were brought out of police violence, an on-going conversation in large part still because of the actions taken by protestors.
        LegitShady 6y ago
        Hey this is me engaging with you saying everyone who holds that opinion is wrong and I'd vote the other way because won't be held hostage at the whim of mobs based on the color of people's skin. That's not me having a conversation. That's me telling you this is actively harmful for whatever it is you're trying to talk about, because there is nothing to talk about anymore. By allowing these riots to continue the local and state governments have abandoned the rule of law and have thus made the law unimportant. Similarly those pushing political agendas through violent riots are terrorists and those who support them are enabling terrorism. This isn't me having a conversation about your issue this is me telling you that your issue doesn't matter because resorting to violence and demanding those who are supposed to abate violence be abolished You've ended any converation possible. Whatever you think it's doing it's not communicating anything except "accede or we will riot" and my response to that is violence begets violence be prepared to have things escalate instead of causing legitimate conversations. It's a conversation like being held up is a conversation.
- lawnchair_larry 6y ago
  You mean other programs that you wildly speculate will reduce crime, but like all attempts at social engineering, probably won’t turn out how you expect at all. Maybe get something in place that is already working before you try your lethal experiments on humans?
  - GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
    Why does the US incarcerate individuals at world records? Tax Payers spend millions housing / feeding / providing healthcare to 1.4 million incarcerated people. Does the US simply have more criminals? or are we wasting money providing a ban-aid fix to crime which most first world countries have figured out. It's much more expensive to over-police a broken social system than it is to foster the conditions which produce less crime overall.
- gruez 6y ago
  Let's flip the framing: if the republicans said they have a plan to "defund social security and medicare", what do you think they are trying to do? Would your immediate reaction be positive or negative? Would "shifting budget to other programs" come to your mind?
  - GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
    I fail to see how this framing is useful to this discussion: Republicans enact austerity measures constantly, so I wouldn't think they would be shifting the money around anyways. The "Defund the Police" line is coming from the progressive wing of the Democratic party, which believe in funding the social programs.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> This is why the defund the police people really need a better slogan. The defund and/or dismantle groups have acheived sufficient support to drive policy in a number of cities. What they need is concrete results to point to. While defund might also benefit from a better slogan, truly novel complex positions just aren't ever going to be effectively communicated by any simple slogan, especially when they have opponents that so understand what it means, don't want it, and are dedicated to fogging the issue to avoid direct engagement. But when you've got concrete examples to point to, it's a lot harder to fog the issue.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

This is why the defund the police people really need a better slogan. You can argue that the police should work differently than they do, but it's just obviously stupid to not have police.

GaryNumanVevo 6y ago

"Defund the police" refers to trimming bloated budgets and fully funding other programs that reduce crime such as funding inner city schools, child care for poor parents, etc.

Rebelgecko 6y ago
Anecdotally from seeing discussions online and interviews on the news (which to be fair has some sample bias that will emphasize more extreme beliefs), a non negligible number of people who say "Defund the police" believe that police should be abolished.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  There's a case to be made that while a city needs police it maybe doesn't need _these_ police. At some point an organization is so corrupt that it cannot be reformed. I have no problem with plans to reshape law enforcement through complete dissolution of current police departments.
cwhiz 6y ago
Then come up with a different slogan? There isn’t any ambiguity in the word “defund.”
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
geodel 6y ago
Seems like 'Agile' then. Everytime agile bullshittery falls flat someone invariably comes to explain how people are not doing agile right.
daenz 6y ago
Do you find that you frequently need to explain "defund the police" to people? Don't you think that's a problem, given that a slogan is supposed to convey a clear message that is easy for everyone to understand what you're about?
- GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
  It's a conversation starter. It's definitely sparked a lot of meaningful dialogues about the state of policing in the US and how to make it better for all involved.
  - LegitShady 6y ago
    I believe it's a conversation ender rather than starter. When people are throwing around a abolishing the police and using violent riots to push it that ends conversation rather than starts it.
    - GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
      It hasn't seemed to stop you from reading and even engaging with this conversation. I would think it's doing it's job as a slogan just fine. Of course you shouldn't forget the context of these "violent" riots were brought out of police violence, an on-going conversation in large part still because of the actions taken by protestors.
      - LegitShady 6y ago
        Hey this is me engaging with you saying everyone who holds that opinion is wrong and I'd vote the other way because won't be held hostage at the whim of mobs based on the color of people's skin. That's not me having a conversation. That's me telling you this is actively harmful for whatever it is you're trying to talk about, because there is nothing to talk about anymore. By allowing these riots to continue the local and state governments have abandoned the rule of law and have thus made the law unimportant. Similarly those pushing political agendas through violent riots are terrorists and those who support them are enabling terrorism. This isn't me having a conversation about your issue this is me telling you that your issue doesn't matter because resorting to violence and demanding those who are supposed to abate violence be abolished You've ended any converation possible. Whatever you think it's doing it's not communicating anything except "accede or we will riot" and my response to that is violence begets violence be prepared to have things escalate instead of causing legitimate conversations. It's a conversation like being held up is a conversation.
lawnchair_larry 6y ago
You mean other programs that you wildly speculate will reduce crime, but like all attempts at social engineering, probably won’t turn out how you expect at all. Maybe get something in place that is already working before you try your lethal experiments on humans?
- GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
  Why does the US incarcerate individuals at world records? Tax Payers spend millions housing / feeding / providing healthcare to 1.4 million incarcerated people. Does the US simply have more criminals? or are we wasting money providing a ban-aid fix to crime which most first world countries have figured out. It's much more expensive to over-police a broken social system than it is to foster the conditions which produce less crime overall.
gruez 6y ago
Let's flip the framing: if the republicans said they have a plan to "defund social security and medicare", what do you think they are trying to do? Would your immediate reaction be positive or negative? Would "shifting budget to other programs" come to your mind?
- GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
  I fail to see how this framing is useful to this discussion: Republicans enact austerity measures constantly, so I wouldn't think they would be shifting the money around anyways. The "Defund the Police" line is coming from the progressive wing of the Democratic party, which believe in funding the social programs.

dragonwriter 6y ago

> This is why the defund the police people really need a better slogan. The defund and/or dismantle groups have acheived sufficient support to drive policy in a number of cities. What they need is concrete results to point to. While defund might also benefit from a better slogan, truly novel complex positions just aren't ever going to be effectively communicated by any simple slogan, especially when they have opponents that so understand what it means, don't want it, and are dedicated to fogging the issue to avoid direct engagement. But when you've got concrete examples to point to, it's a lot harder to fog the issue.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]