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Have you seen what the average Mac user’s computer often looks like? It’s often a mess of five years old Adobe flash update messages, and adware like MacKeeper.

Have you seen what the average Mac user’s computer often looks like? It’s often a mess of five years old Adobe flash update messages, and adware like MacKeeper. I know because I’ve had to spend hours cleaning this trash up from machines belonging to friends and family. Meanwhile this has never been an issue on the iPhone. The lack of UX-degrading software on the iPad is also the primary reason why I’ve been pushing my friends and family away from the Mac and onto the iPad. With the limited software ecosystem of the iPad, there’s far less things for them to screw up on the Mac.

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
Well, some people just love their chains. It is ok, I guess, their right to agree to bondage. But why do they insist that everyone else should be as enslaved as they are themselves? And yes,I've seen Macs of average users. Never saw anything really wrong there. You are exaggerating the issue.
- dkonofalski 6y ago
  They're not enslaved. No one is forcing anyone to buy a Mac or an iPhone. As long as you have another option, your whole point is irrelevant.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
    This false argument is done to death by Apple apologists. Apple sells the device, but somehow feels itself entitled to control what the user can and can't do to it even after sale. It shouldn't be their business which apps a user wants to run on the device.
    - jackvalentine 6y ago
      "This false argument" Why don't you address it then? There is a world of more open software and hardware out there if you want that freedom. Why should everyone be subject to exactly the product you want?
      - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
        It was addressed a lot of times before, but OK, I'll do it again. You see, you too want the product I am describing, but you are too myopic to understand it. Maybe it is because you come from a better place than I, where the government does not actively censor app stores. Imagine, that some day Apple will remove the app you use, would you still say 'ok, I knew what product I bought'? With iOS devices, you don't buy a product that can run a set of apps. You buy a product where the app you use may stop working any day, because some random moderator or executive at Apple will decide this way.
        dkonofalski 6y ago
        >You buy a product where the app you use may stop working any day This has happened to me with more products than I can count on both the Mac and PC side and with nearly every mobile device I've ever used. Tons of apps on SymbianOS and Windows Mobile that worked on one device didn't work on the next device I bought. The current environment is a vast improvement on everything that came before it. Maybe that's why you're being so condescending. We've lived through the evolution that got us here while you, quite clearly, think that open, by default, equals better simply because it's better for you as an individual. There are many, many people that view the iPhone environment and Apple's ecosystem as the better option. They're obviously all wrong.
        jackvalentine 6y ago
        You failed to address the argument. In a market where both options exist why should one change to be like the one you prefer?
        Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
        You failed to understand that there are no options for iPhone apps market, and users are open to all kinds of abuse: by Apple themselves and by authoritarian governments like in China or Russia. Now, I happen to live in an authoritarian country and I'm kinda more inclined to be not ok with the company that removes access to apps that fail to give up user data to government crooks. You claim that users 'agree' to this when they buy Apple devices. But to what exactly that agree? That apple can take away any app they use, any time? Even the one that was perfectly available when buying the device? The 'deal' you get with apple by buying their hardware can be altered at any time, so the only thing you can do is pray that they don't alter it any further.

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago

Well, some people just love their chains. It is ok, I guess, their right to agree to bondage. But why do they insist that everyone else should be as enslaved as they are themselves? And yes,I've seen Macs of average users. Never saw anything really wrong there. You are exaggerating the issue.

dkonofalski 6y ago
They're not enslaved. No one is forcing anyone to buy a Mac or an iPhone. As long as you have another option, your whole point is irrelevant.
- Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
  This false argument is done to death by Apple apologists. Apple sells the device, but somehow feels itself entitled to control what the user can and can't do to it even after sale. It shouldn't be their business which apps a user wants to run on the device.
  - jackvalentine 6y ago
    "This false argument" Why don't you address it then? There is a world of more open software and hardware out there if you want that freedom. Why should everyone be subject to exactly the product you want?
    - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
      It was addressed a lot of times before, but OK, I'll do it again. You see, you too want the product I am describing, but you are too myopic to understand it. Maybe it is because you come from a better place than I, where the government does not actively censor app stores. Imagine, that some day Apple will remove the app you use, would you still say 'ok, I knew what product I bought'? With iOS devices, you don't buy a product that can run a set of apps. You buy a product where the app you use may stop working any day, because some random moderator or executive at Apple will decide this way.
      - dkonofalski 6y ago
        >You buy a product where the app you use may stop working any day This has happened to me with more products than I can count on both the Mac and PC side and with nearly every mobile device I've ever used. Tons of apps on SymbianOS and Windows Mobile that worked on one device didn't work on the next device I bought. The current environment is a vast improvement on everything that came before it. Maybe that's why you're being so condescending. We've lived through the evolution that got us here while you, quite clearly, think that open, by default, equals better simply because it's better for you as an individual. There are many, many people that view the iPhone environment and Apple's ecosystem as the better option. They're obviously all wrong.
      - jackvalentine 6y ago
        You failed to address the argument. In a market where both options exist why should one change to be like the one you prefer?
        Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
        You failed to understand that there are no options for iPhone apps market, and users are open to all kinds of abuse: by Apple themselves and by authoritarian governments like in China or Russia. Now, I happen to live in an authoritarian country and I'm kinda more inclined to be not ok with the company that removes access to apps that fail to give up user data to government crooks. You claim that users 'agree' to this when they buy Apple devices. But to what exactly that agree? That apple can take away any app they use, any time? Even the one that was perfectly available when buying the device? The 'deal' you get with apple by buying their hardware can be altered at any time, so the only thing you can do is pray that they don't alter it any further.