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I don't think BASIC is good as teaching language, and it's certainly no good as a practical language, so who is this for? Hobbyists, maybe, but then why not use

I don't think BASIC is good as teaching language, and it's certainly no good as a practical language, so who is this for? Hobbyists, maybe, but then why not use PICO8 or something similar?

stevekemp 6y ago
I had fun writing my own BASIC - less advanced, as I had no graphics, but also designed to be embedded in golang applications. I accept that 99% of the software I publish will have zero users, so even if it's no good for others it is still rewarding for its own sake. As for why? Nostalgia. The first computer I owned was a ZX Spectrum that booted to BASIC. I loved it. I still love writing in BASIC, and I still play spectrum games under emulation at least once every few months. My BASIC is like this one, fun to write, fun to tinker with, and at the end of the day it doesn't matter if others don't care/like it too https://github.com/skx/gobasic https://github.com/skx/gobasic
csdreamer7 6y ago
> I don't think BASIC is good as teaching language I learned how to do loops and logic in Basic. C & C++'s syntax was just confusing to me when I was younger. A few days with Basic was all that I needed for the light bulb to go off in my head and work in C++.
- earthboundkid 6y ago
  There are languages for teaching better than C or BASIC.
  - srivastm 6y ago
    For teaching in present time, I would start with Python, and may be for CS oriented students go to functional languages, e.g. scheme.
srivastm 6y ago
BASIC was my first programming language. Back in 90s I made tons on graphics game in it. It is also very close to assembly and can be made really fast. As a programming language, I agree it is not a good choice anymore. I was learning antlr4 and wanted to take it all they way to a working programming language. BASIC is an easy language to implement and I am familiar with it. Hence the choice. For my second language implementation, I would probably pick a better language. My goal is to make it feature complete: add sound support, more functions, array processing, may be add a few modern features like references, and then call it done. Then I want to focus on improving the IR and runtime machine.
- adamredwoods 6y ago
  BASIC is great. Neat project! I'm just not a fan of line numbers.
  - srivastm 6y ago
    Line numbers are optional in PuffinBASIC now, introduced labels, e.g. https://github.com/mayuropensource/PuffinBASIC/blob/master/samples/puffingame/flypuffinfly.bas https://github.com/mayuropensource/PuffinBASIC/blob/master/s...
  - srivastm 6y ago
    After writing the PuffinBASIC interpreter and a game, here are my initial comments on the BASIC language: 1. Drop line numbers and use Labels 2. Needs multi-line IF-THEN 3. Needs switch 4. Needs named subroutines with local scope, much like functions 5. Needs references (not pointers) 6. Drop variable suffix
Minor49er 6y ago
Plenty of shareware programs have been written in BASIC. One example can be found at http://roevalley.com/newsbrowser/english/software.htm http://roevalley.com/newsbrowser/english/software.htm
Quot 6y ago
VB.Net was my first language in 2010. The syntax made it really easy to pick up and make small projects on Windows. The ease of use made it pretty fun to play around with and learn new things. I think learning a more popular language (like python) would have been more helpful, but as a teaching tool, VB was great and helped me quickly jump into those other languages.
jrm4 6y ago
Could be because I'm old and it's what I started with, but I can't see how BASIC isn't a great beginner language -- especially with regard to going from "0 to working code." 10 PRINT "John is awesome" 20 GOTO 10 ..and now you've shown a child the power of complete control as well as the concept of infinity. I have not seen a remotely comparable demonstration for getting someone excited about programming in any other language.
- earthboundkid 6y ago
  I started in BASIC in the 80s. The olden days sucked! - No good manuals! I lived in the sticks and had little access to the library. All I could do was flip through the GW-BASIC reference book. It sucked! - Teaches bad habits. It took me years before I realized I was a bad programmer and was doing everything wrong! - Not as powerful as a modern system. Modern stuff lets you easily sprites on the screen. That's 99.9% of what kids want to do! You can do a lot more, a lot more quickly with modern educational languages. There are still big issues with distribution, but all things equal, it's way better to be a kid learning a modern language today than a kid learning BASIC in the 80s.
  - srivastm 6y ago
    I worked on gwbasic in early 90s and I turned lack of Docs/resources to my advantage. I used to spend time thinking about different ways to solve a problem. Basic does teach some bad habits, but it also teaches basic control structures, debugging skills and problem solving. Later, when I switched to C/Java/C++, the old programming habits changed quickly. In modern times, I would recommend Python as a beginner’s language.
- srivastm 6y ago
  I agree. I had access to no other language in early 90s. I made tons of graphics games in gwbasic back then. I recently wrote a game in PuffinBASIC as well to relive old days: https://github.com/mayuropensource/PuffinBASIC/blob/master/samples/puffingame/flypuffinfly.bas https://github.com/mayuropensource/PuffinBASIC/blob/master/s... In modern languages, python is an excellent beginner’s language.

I don't think BASIC is good as teaching language, and it's certainly no good as a practical language, so who is this for? Hobbyists, maybe, but then why not use PICO8 or something similar?

stevekemp 6y ago

I had fun writing my own BASIC - less advanced, as I had no graphics, but also designed to be embedded in golang applications. I accept that 99% of the software I publish will have zero users, so even if it's no good for others it is still rewarding for its own sake. As for why? Nostalgia. The first computer I owned was a ZX Spectrum that booted to BASIC. I loved it. I still love writing in BASIC, and I still play spectrum games under emulation at least once every few months. My BASIC is like this one, fun to write, fun to tinker with, and at the end of the day it doesn't matter if others don't care/like it too https://github.com/skx/gobasic https://github.com/skx/gobasic

csdreamer7 6y ago

> I don't think BASIC is good as teaching language I learned how to do loops and logic in Basic. C & C++'s syntax was just confusing to me when I was younger. A few days with Basic was all that I needed for the light bulb to go off in my head and work in C++.

earthboundkid 6y ago
There are languages for teaching better than C or BASIC.
- srivastm 6y ago
  For teaching in present time, I would start with Python, and may be for CS oriented students go to functional languages, e.g. scheme.

srivastm 6y ago

BASIC was my first programming language. Back in 90s I made tons on graphics game in it. It is also very close to assembly and can be made really fast. As a programming language, I agree it is not a good choice anymore. I was learning antlr4 and wanted to take it all they way to a working programming language. BASIC is an easy language to implement and I am familiar with it. Hence the choice. For my second language implementation, I would probably pick a better language. My goal is to make it feature complete: add sound support, more functions, array processing, may be add a few modern features like references, and then call it done. Then I want to focus on improving the IR and runtime machine.

adamredwoods 6y ago
BASIC is great. Neat project! I'm just not a fan of line numbers.
- srivastm 6y ago
  Line numbers are optional in PuffinBASIC now, introduced labels, e.g. https://github.com/mayuropensource/PuffinBASIC/blob/master/samples/puffingame/flypuffinfly.bas https://github.com/mayuropensource/PuffinBASIC/blob/master/s...
- srivastm 6y ago
  After writing the PuffinBASIC interpreter and a game, here are my initial comments on the BASIC language: 1. Drop line numbers and use Labels 2. Needs multi-line IF-THEN 3. Needs switch 4. Needs named subroutines with local scope, much like functions 5. Needs references (not pointers) 6. Drop variable suffix

Minor49er 6y ago

Plenty of shareware programs have been written in BASIC. One example can be found at http://roevalley.com/newsbrowser/english/software.htm http://roevalley.com/newsbrowser/english/software.htm

Quot 6y ago

VB.Net was my first language in 2010. The syntax made it really easy to pick up and make small projects on Windows. The ease of use made it pretty fun to play around with and learn new things. I think learning a more popular language (like python) would have been more helpful, but as a teaching tool, VB was great and helped me quickly jump into those other languages.

jrm4 6y ago

Could be because I'm old and it's what I started with, but I can't see how BASIC isn't a great beginner language -- especially with regard to going from "0 to working code." 10 PRINT "John is awesome" 20 GOTO 10 ..and now you've shown a child the power of complete control as well as the concept of infinity. I have not seen a remotely comparable demonstration for getting someone excited about programming in any other language.

earthboundkid 6y ago
I started in BASIC in the 80s. The olden days sucked! - No good manuals! I lived in the sticks and had little access to the library. All I could do was flip through the GW-BASIC reference book. It sucked! - Teaches bad habits. It took me years before I realized I was a bad programmer and was doing everything wrong! - Not as powerful as a modern system. Modern stuff lets you easily sprites on the screen. That's 99.9% of what kids want to do! You can do a lot more, a lot more quickly with modern educational languages. There are still big issues with distribution, but all things equal, it's way better to be a kid learning a modern language today than a kid learning BASIC in the 80s.
- srivastm 6y ago
  I worked on gwbasic in early 90s and I turned lack of Docs/resources to my advantage. I used to spend time thinking about different ways to solve a problem. Basic does teach some bad habits, but it also teaches basic control structures, debugging skills and problem solving. Later, when I switched to C/Java/C++, the old programming habits changed quickly. In modern times, I would recommend Python as a beginner’s language.
srivastm 6y ago
I agree. I had access to no other language in early 90s. I made tons of graphics games in gwbasic back then. I recently wrote a game in PuffinBASIC as well to relive old days: https://github.com/mayuropensource/PuffinBASIC/blob/master/samples/puffingame/flypuffinfly.bas https://github.com/mayuropensource/PuffinBASIC/blob/master/s... In modern languages, python is an excellent beginner’s language.