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The capabilities that I paid for are what I got. I did not pay for a device that lets me install whatever app or widget I want. I paid for an iPhone knowing exa

The capabilities that I paid for are what I got. I did not pay for a device that lets me install whatever app or widget I want. I paid for an iPhone knowing exactly what it was and wasn't capable of and I paid for that specifically because I know that Apple doesn't need to dedicate resources to anything other than my device. Taking that away changes the entire ecosystem and all the benefits presented by it. Look at Macs vs. PCs. There are entire industries dedicated to fixing the problems presented by the amount of options available on a PC. I don't want that. I want a device that I know works to do the things I need it to do. If the day comes where I need to do something I can't, I'll need to find another device.

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
So, will you be happy if the government asks Apple to remove every messenger that allows encryption? That's what users in China get. Also, it's nice that you mention Macs. On Macs, you can install any app bypassing the AppStore. As it should be on a proper computer, and iPhone IS a computer.
- spideymans 6y ago
  Have you seen what the average Mac user’s computer often looks like? It’s often a mess of five years old Adobe flash update messages, and adware like MacKeeper. I know because I’ve had to spend hours cleaning this trash up from machines belonging to friends and family. Meanwhile this has never been an issue on the iPhone. The lack of UX-degrading software on the iPad is also the primary reason why I’ve been pushing my friends and family away from the Mac and onto the iPad. With the limited software ecosystem of the iPad, there’s far less things for them to screw up on the Mac.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
    Well, some people just love their chains. It is ok, I guess, their right to agree to bondage. But why do they insist that everyone else should be as enslaved as they are themselves? And yes,I've seen Macs of average users. Never saw anything really wrong there. You are exaggerating the issue.
    - dkonofalski 6y ago
      They're not enslaved. No one is forcing anyone to buy a Mac or an iPhone. As long as you have another option, your whole point is irrelevant.
      - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
        This false argument is done to death by Apple apologists. Apple sells the device, but somehow feels itself entitled to control what the user can and can't do to it even after sale. It shouldn't be their business which apps a user wants to run on the device.
        jackvalentine 6y ago
        "This false argument" Why don't you address it then? There is a world of more open software and hardware out there if you want that freedom. Why should everyone be subject to exactly the product you want?
        Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
        It was addressed a lot of times before, but OK, I'll do it again. You see, you too want the product I am describing, but you are too myopic to understand it. Maybe it is because you come from a better place than I, where the government does not actively censor app stores. Imagine, that some day Apple will remove the app you use, would you still say 'ok, I knew what product I bought'? With iOS devices, you don't buy a product that can run a set of apps. You buy a product where the app you use may stop working any day, because some random moderator or executive at Apple will decide this way.
        dkonofalski 6y ago
        >You buy a product where the app you use may stop working any day This has happened to me with more products than I can count on both the Mac and PC side and with nearly every mobile device I've ever used. Tons of apps on SymbianOS and Windows Mobile that worked on one device didn't work on the next device I bought. The current environment is a vast improvement on everything that came before it. Maybe that's why you're being so condescending. We've lived through the evolution that got us here while you, quite clearly, think that open, by default, equals better simply because it's better for you as an individual. There are many, many people that view the iPhone environment and Apple's ecosystem as the better option. They're obviously all wrong.
- dkonofalski 6y ago
  I don't understand how that's any different than Google? China has a country-wide firewall too so, even if you have an Android phone, there's no way to get around that without breaking the law. Also, what happens on a Mac has no bearing on what happens on the iPhone even if I made an analogy using the Mac. I need that type of access on my Mac. If they ever remove that, I'll need to find another option. That's not the case with the iPhone so your point is moot.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
    > I don't understand how that's any different than Google? With Android, at least you can sideload the apps, and firewalls can be circumvented fairly easily. As for laws, well, not all laws are to be obeyed.
    - dkonofalski 6y ago
      And on an iPhone, you can jailbreak and install apps too. At least in that case, you need technical knowledge and a willful understanding that you're voiding any kind of support. Tell that to the people living in China.

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago

So, will you be happy if the government asks Apple to remove every messenger that allows encryption? That's what users in China get. Also, it's nice that you mention Macs. On Macs, you can install any app bypassing the AppStore. As it should be on a proper computer, and iPhone IS a computer.

spideymans 6y ago
Have you seen what the average Mac user’s computer often looks like? It’s often a mess of five years old Adobe flash update messages, and adware like MacKeeper. I know because I’ve had to spend hours cleaning this trash up from machines belonging to friends and family. Meanwhile this has never been an issue on the iPhone. The lack of UX-degrading software on the iPad is also the primary reason why I’ve been pushing my friends and family away from the Mac and onto the iPad. With the limited software ecosystem of the iPad, there’s far less things for them to screw up on the Mac.
- Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
  Well, some people just love their chains. It is ok, I guess, their right to agree to bondage. But why do they insist that everyone else should be as enslaved as they are themselves? And yes,I've seen Macs of average users. Never saw anything really wrong there. You are exaggerating the issue.
  - dkonofalski 6y ago
    They're not enslaved. No one is forcing anyone to buy a Mac or an iPhone. As long as you have another option, your whole point is irrelevant.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
      This false argument is done to death by Apple apologists. Apple sells the device, but somehow feels itself entitled to control what the user can and can't do to it even after sale. It shouldn't be their business which apps a user wants to run on the device.
      - jackvalentine 6y ago
        "This false argument" Why don't you address it then? There is a world of more open software and hardware out there if you want that freedom. Why should everyone be subject to exactly the product you want?
        Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
        It was addressed a lot of times before, but OK, I'll do it again. You see, you too want the product I am describing, but you are too myopic to understand it. Maybe it is because you come from a better place than I, where the government does not actively censor app stores. Imagine, that some day Apple will remove the app you use, would you still say 'ok, I knew what product I bought'? With iOS devices, you don't buy a product that can run a set of apps. You buy a product where the app you use may stop working any day, because some random moderator or executive at Apple will decide this way.
        dkonofalski 6y ago
        >You buy a product where the app you use may stop working any day This has happened to me with more products than I can count on both the Mac and PC side and with nearly every mobile device I've ever used. Tons of apps on SymbianOS and Windows Mobile that worked on one device didn't work on the next device I bought. The current environment is a vast improvement on everything that came before it. Maybe that's why you're being so condescending. We've lived through the evolution that got us here while you, quite clearly, think that open, by default, equals better simply because it's better for you as an individual. There are many, many people that view the iPhone environment and Apple's ecosystem as the better option. They're obviously all wrong.
dkonofalski 6y ago
I don't understand how that's any different than Google? China has a country-wide firewall too so, even if you have an Android phone, there's no way to get around that without breaking the law. Also, what happens on a Mac has no bearing on what happens on the iPhone even if I made an analogy using the Mac. I need that type of access on my Mac. If they ever remove that, I'll need to find another option. That's not the case with the iPhone so your point is moot.
- Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
  > I don't understand how that's any different than Google? With Android, at least you can sideload the apps, and firewalls can be circumvented fairly easily. As for laws, well, not all laws are to be obeyed.
  - dkonofalski 6y ago
    And on an iPhone, you can jailbreak and install apps too. At least in that case, you need technical knowledge and a willful understanding that you're voiding any kind of support. Tell that to the people living in China.