5 ms·

They aren't banned from using Apple's development tools.

by lewisgodowski 6y ago

saagarjha 6y ago
They were going to be.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  No they weren't. You can download and use the developer tools without a developer account.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    You must agree to the developer program's EULA to use Apple's developer tools, as well as sign your code.
    - dwaite 6y ago
      you must agree to the Xcode and Apple SDKs Agreement to use Xcode and production SDKs, which is a click-through when starting Xcode. You must agree to an Apple Developer Program License Agreement to sign and distribute applications and to get access to pre-release SDKs.
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        Don't you need to be registered in the developer program to sign your code for Apple's embedded platforms?
        hundchenkatze 6y ago
        You do, but if I built a game using Unreal Engine then I'd be using my developer account to sign my game.
        saagarjha 6y ago
        Yeah, but as a developer of Unreal Engine itself I'd like to be able to test it on iPhone…
        hundchenkatze 6y ago
        Then create a free developer account. You only need to pay if you need to sign for distribution.
    - mlindner 6y ago
      You don't need to sign your code before being able to write your code.
      - aptgetrekt 6y ago
        I made a Mac app a few weeks ago that got to the front page here on HN[1]. It isn't notarized by Apple since I don't want to pay Apple just so I can give my work away for free that fixes something that shouldn't be an issue in their OS in the first place. When users run the app for the first time, they get a warning[2]. For that kind of popup to happen when anyone tries to use anything by Epic would almost certainly dissuade new users a bit. Currently you can run unsigned code on macOS if you disable some security options in preferences but soon that won't be possible[3]. It's already the case that unsigned code can't run on iOS, so for Epic to develop an engine on iOS they must be able to sign their IPA files so they can actually be installed on a testing iOS device which can only be done through Apple. 1. https://github.com/ther0n/UnnaturalScrollWheels/ https://github.com/ther0n/UnnaturalScrollWheels/ 2. https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/5874301/88485840-2e9ead00-cf47-11ea-94da-a5e807cf0dca.png https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/5874301/88485840-2... 3. https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/icyif5/apple_silicon_macs_to_require_signed_code/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/icyif5/apple_silicon...
        heavyset_go 6y ago
        Thanks for sharing your experience. I also work on a free utility for macOS that I'm not paying $100 each year to release. As a result, macOS treats that app like it's radioactive. It's a disservice to users who intentionally download the app to improve their experiences, only to find out that the program is a second-class citizen on macOS, and they need to perform a security ritual to use it. If the users don't know what the ritual is, to them, the app is just broken. I recognize the writing on the wall, though. macOS isn't a platform to hack around on anymore, it's Apple's platform to extract rents from its developers and users. If your app or use case doesn't fit into that ecosystem, that's just too bad.
        aptgetrekt 6y ago
admax88q 6y ago
https://www.scribd.com/document/473210410/Email-exhibits-from-Epic-v-Apple https://www.scribd.com/document/473210410/Email-exhibits-fro... Exhibit I From Apple to Epic: "If your membership is terminated, you may no longer submit apps to the App Store, and your apps still available for distribution will be removed. You will also lose access to the following programs, technologies, and capabilities: - All Apple software, SDKs, APIs, and developer tools"

They aren't banned from using Apple's development tools.

saagarjha 6y ago

They were going to be.

tonyedgecombe 6y ago
No they weren't. You can download and use the developer tools without a developer account.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  You must agree to the developer program's EULA to use Apple's developer tools, as well as sign your code.
  - dwaite 6y ago
    you must agree to the Xcode and Apple SDKs Agreement to use Xcode and production SDKs, which is a click-through when starting Xcode. You must agree to an Apple Developer Program License Agreement to sign and distribute applications and to get access to pre-release SDKs.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      Don't you need to be registered in the developer program to sign your code for Apple's embedded platforms?
      - hundchenkatze 6y ago
        You do, but if I built a game using Unreal Engine then I'd be using my developer account to sign my game.
        saagarjha 6y ago
        Yeah, but as a developer of Unreal Engine itself I'd like to be able to test it on iPhone…
        hundchenkatze 6y ago
        Then create a free developer account. You only need to pay if you need to sign for distribution.
  - mlindner 6y ago
    You don't need to sign your code before being able to write your code.
    - aptgetrekt 6y ago
      I made a Mac app a few weeks ago that got to the front page here on HN[1]. It isn't notarized by Apple since I don't want to pay Apple just so I can give my work away for free that fixes something that shouldn't be an issue in their OS in the first place. When users run the app for the first time, they get a warning[2]. For that kind of popup to happen when anyone tries to use anything by Epic would almost certainly dissuade new users a bit. Currently you can run unsigned code on macOS if you disable some security options in preferences but soon that won't be possible[3]. It's already the case that unsigned code can't run on iOS, so for Epic to develop an engine on iOS they must be able to sign their IPA files so they can actually be installed on a testing iOS device which can only be done through Apple. 1. https://github.com/ther0n/UnnaturalScrollWheels/ https://github.com/ther0n/UnnaturalScrollWheels/ 2. https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/5874301/88485840-2e9ead00-cf47-11ea-94da-a5e807cf0dca.png https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/5874301/88485840-2... 3. https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/icyif5/apple_silicon_macs_to_require_signed_code/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/icyif5/apple_silicon...
      - heavyset_go 6y ago
        Thanks for sharing your experience. I also work on a free utility for macOS that I'm not paying $100 each year to release. As a result, macOS treats that app like it's radioactive. It's a disservice to users who intentionally download the app to improve their experiences, only to find out that the program is a second-class citizen on macOS, and they need to perform a security ritual to use it. If the users don't know what the ritual is, to them, the app is just broken. I recognize the writing on the wall, though. macOS isn't a platform to hack around on anymore, it's Apple's platform to extract rents from its developers and users. If your app or use case doesn't fit into that ecosystem, that's just too bad.
        aptgetrekt 6y ago

admax88q 6y ago

https://www.scribd.com/document/473210410/Email-exhibits-from-Epic-v-Apple https://www.scribd.com/document/473210410/Email-exhibits-fro... Exhibit I From Apple to Epic: "If your membership is terminated, you may no longer submit apps to the App Store, and your apps still available for distribution will be removed. You will also lose access to the following programs, technologies, and capabilities: - All Apple software, SDKs, APIs, and developer tools"