6 ms·

I know a guy who works at Jane Street; he was formerly one of the brightest undergrads at Caltech. He turned down an offer to do a PhD at Berkeley to take the J

I know a guy who works at Jane Street; he was formerly one of the brightest undergrads at Caltech. He turned down an offer to do a PhD at Berkeley to take the Jane Street offer, IIRC. He is pretty idealistic and has an interesting philosophy about working in finance: he thinks moving money around isn't that societally valuable, but he donates 10-15% of his income to charity each year (I think he picks charities using the GiveWell/effective altruism methodology). In his view, the value of his lifetime charitable contributions exceeds the impact he could hope to have in pretty much any other field of endeavor, so the job is completely worth it.

ch4s3 6y ago
I think that's a pretty interesting approach.
rob2312 6y ago
https://80000hours.org/articles/earning-to-give/ https://80000hours.org/articles/earning-to-give/ describes that philosophy in good detail. It's a pretty compelling argument, in my opinion
- vikasnair 6y ago
  Haseeb Q notably donates 30% of their income, citing 80000 as inspiration. Really interesting life story, as well: https://haseebq.com/about/ https://haseebq.com/about/
chrisjarvis 6y ago
I disagree with that philosophy completely. "One of the brightest undergrads at Caltech" with a "PhD offer at Berkeley", sounds like someone with an incredible high IQ and work ethic to match. This person really thinks that with their incredible talents they can't do more than a few million $ lifetime worth of "good" in the world by following their passions instead working in algorithmic trading? I think they are selling themselves short.
- mjangle1985 6y ago
  I think you're vastly overestimating the potential impact even bright and motivated people can have on greater society.
reaperducer 6y ago
he donates 10-15% of his income to charity each year For a lot of people, that's just normal life. When I was between jobs, I got a temp position installing a network and doing other IT stuff at a small midwestern Baptist church. During the transition to the new system, the secretary went on leave, so it fell to me to input the weekly donations into the accounting software. Some of the donations came in envelopes pre-printed with the parishioner's ID, so the church knew when to send more envelopes. Certain people were donating hundreds or thousands of dollars each week or month to the church. I asked the pastor about it, and he confirmed what my grandmother always told me: You give 10% of your salary plus 10% of any "found money" to the church. I know that may seem shocking to the IT crowd, but for many people charity isn't unusual. It's just how they live. When you get your paycheck, you pay your rent, your utilities, and the charity of your choice. It's normal.
- thundergolfer 6y ago
  It’s certainly notable that as religion has been abandoned by newer generations, the concept of tithing (10-15% to your church) has fallen out of public consciousness. I do Effective Altruism, donating at least 10-15% of my income, but was only peripherally aware of people donating to church, and only thought it was pocket chance not thousands a year. Donating to Effective Altruism charities is quite different ethically to tithing, though.
- therealdrag0 6y ago
  Especially at Jane Street level incomes... the marginal cost of 10% is not a lot compared to the 10% my mom gives from what she makes near minimum wage.
nwsm 6y ago
> moving money around isn't that societally valuable I would say hedge funds have massive negative social value (especially quant/HFT ones), and actively contribute to wealth inequity. Robert Mercer is a prime example of this. Not saying I think your friend is a bad person or should quit, but it's kind of a naive justification.
- logicslave12 6y ago
  Are you aware of how few people get rich in the hedge fund industry? It’s not much more than people getting rich in Vegas and on lottery tickets
  - nwsm 6y ago
    Billions are generated for investors every year by hedge funds. Obviously there are not many Robert Mercers making money by running hedge funds, but there are countless millionaires and billionaires exacerbating their wealth through hedge funds.
    - logicslave12 6y ago
      In nyc there’s less than 10,000 investing jobs. You’re talking about a few thousand people a year
      - nwsm 6y ago
        I'm not talking about investing jobs! Investment firms invest other people's money. I'm talking about the profit those other people realize, not the profit the firm or its employees realize through fees and investment of its own capital.
- yellowstuff 6y ago
  I'm curious why you think HFT is harmful. They do the same job that human market makers used to do, buy vastly more efficiently, leading to lower prices for "customers" (IE lower spreads), and lower profits for the industry: > TABB Group estimates that US equity HFT revenues have declined from approximately $7.2 billion in 2009 to about $1.3 billion in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20140404072855/http://tabbforum.com/opinions/no-michael-lewis-the-us-equities-market-is-not-rigged https://web.archive.org/web/20140404072855/http://tabbforum.... I mostly agree that Robert Mercer has been a force for evil in the world, but subjectively my impression is that finance billionaires are more likely than people from other industries to spend their money on relatively uncontroversial philanthropy.

ch4s3 6y ago

I think that's a pretty interesting approach.

rob2312 6y ago

https://80000hours.org/articles/earning-to-give/ https://80000hours.org/articles/earning-to-give/ describes that philosophy in good detail. It's a pretty compelling argument, in my opinion

vikasnair 6y ago
Haseeb Q notably donates 30% of their income, citing 80000 as inspiration. Really interesting life story, as well: https://haseebq.com/about/ https://haseebq.com/about/

chrisjarvis 6y ago

I disagree with that philosophy completely. "One of the brightest undergrads at Caltech" with a "PhD offer at Berkeley", sounds like someone with an incredible high IQ and work ethic to match. This person really thinks that with their incredible talents they can't do more than a few million $ lifetime worth of "good" in the world by following their passions instead working in algorithmic trading? I think they are selling themselves short.

mjangle1985 6y ago
I think you're vastly overestimating the potential impact even bright and motivated people can have on greater society.

reaperducer 6y ago

he donates 10-15% of his income to charity each year For a lot of people, that's just normal life. When I was between jobs, I got a temp position installing a network and doing other IT stuff at a small midwestern Baptist church. During the transition to the new system, the secretary went on leave, so it fell to me to input the weekly donations into the accounting software. Some of the donations came in envelopes pre-printed with the parishioner's ID, so the church knew when to send more envelopes. Certain people were donating hundreds or thousands of dollars each week or month to the church. I asked the pastor about it, and he confirmed what my grandmother always told me: You give 10% of your salary plus 10% of any "found money" to the church. I know that may seem shocking to the IT crowd, but for many people charity isn't unusual. It's just how they live. When you get your paycheck, you pay your rent, your utilities, and the charity of your choice. It's normal.

thundergolfer 6y ago
It’s certainly notable that as religion has been abandoned by newer generations, the concept of tithing (10-15% to your church) has fallen out of public consciousness. I do Effective Altruism, donating at least 10-15% of my income, but was only peripherally aware of people donating to church, and only thought it was pocket chance not thousands a year. Donating to Effective Altruism charities is quite different ethically to tithing, though.
therealdrag0 6y ago
Especially at Jane Street level incomes... the marginal cost of 10% is not a lot compared to the 10% my mom gives from what she makes near minimum wage.

nwsm 6y ago

> moving money around isn't that societally valuable I would say hedge funds have massive negative social value (especially quant/HFT ones), and actively contribute to wealth inequity. Robert Mercer is a prime example of this. Not saying I think your friend is a bad person or should quit, but it's kind of a naive justification.

logicslave12 6y ago
Are you aware of how few people get rich in the hedge fund industry? It’s not much more than people getting rich in Vegas and on lottery tickets
- nwsm 6y ago
  Billions are generated for investors every year by hedge funds. Obviously there are not many Robert Mercers making money by running hedge funds, but there are countless millionaires and billionaires exacerbating their wealth through hedge funds.
  - logicslave12 6y ago
    In nyc there’s less than 10,000 investing jobs. You’re talking about a few thousand people a year
    - nwsm 6y ago
      I'm not talking about investing jobs! Investment firms invest other people's money. I'm talking about the profit those other people realize, not the profit the firm or its employees realize through fees and investment of its own capital.
yellowstuff 6y ago
I'm curious why you think HFT is harmful. They do the same job that human market makers used to do, buy vastly more efficiently, leading to lower prices for "customers" (IE lower spreads), and lower profits for the industry: > TABB Group estimates that US equity HFT revenues have declined from approximately $7.2 billion in 2009 to about $1.3 billion in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20140404072855/http://tabbforum.com/opinions/no-michael-lewis-the-us-equities-market-is-not-rigged https://web.archive.org/web/20140404072855/http://tabbforum.... I mostly agree that Robert Mercer has been a force for evil in the world, but subjectively my impression is that finance billionaires are more likely than people from other industries to spend their money on relatively uncontroversial philanthropy.