7 ms·

I can't wait to go back to the office. Everything about my job is harder from home. Harder for me to focus on work, harder for me to separate work and life, so

I can't wait to go back to the office. Everything about my job is harder from home. Harder for me to focus on work, harder for me to separate work and life, so so so much harder to forge the actual human connections that make tech work feel at all worth doing. ETA: Interesting that the above has resulted in high controversy in both up/down votes and replies. I can tell this is a very emotional issue for people. To be clear I'm not interested in forcing people to do anything, just trying to share my experiences. I would be disappointed if my job went permanently remote, and would probably start looking for a new one.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
Conversely, there are others who feel the opposite and love working from home (no shared workspace with coworkers, the freedom to work in their home environment how they want) and don’t have the need for human connection (because they get that from their family and friends) from their job, only a paycheck. Lots more remote work now for remote folks (with businesses required to have a go at it, and learning it’s easier than expected), and I’m sure office folks will still find businesses that will offer that model.
- ska 6y ago
  I agree with your general contention that others may love the idea of indefinite work-from-home, but I don't think the poster was claiming work as the source of your life's human connections. I read it as work without those connections lost meaning (for them). I can see that point - many of my best experiences doing difficult technical work have been with very tight knit teams that are difficult to maintain working remotely, let alone create. Which isn't to say its-just-a-paycheck jobs are wrong in any sense, just that it's not enough for everyone.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    I’ve worked remote for the last ~10 years and have had such moments with a team, so I’m skeptical that this requires in person collaboration to achieve these shared flow states (for lack of a better description). Please forgive the bluntness of my opinion. First the business world made excuses that remote work just wasn’t as productive as in person work, and then a pandemic forced an experiment that proved that assertion to be untrue. Now the excuse is, “well, remote just isn’t as good as in person for building team bonds and collaboration” even when teams at billion dollar orgs (both young and old) are able to do so. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but facts and data are not negotiable, and this is important distinction when large scale presence decisions are being made for workforces.
    - ISL 6y ago
      The tightest professional relationships I've made in many moons were made entirely remote during some Covid-19 relief work. I still haven't met any of them in person, but there was as much humanity in that project as we ever get working-from-work.
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        Shared struggle can generate cohesion regardless of locality. Happy to hear this anecdote.
    - ska 6y ago
      I don't find this blunt, it's your experience. For what it's worth, I've a experienced a fair range of what is possible. I've worked on local, mixed, and remote teams in both IC and lead roles. This experience has led me to believe that: (a) it is possible to have good cohesion in a remote group (b) it is harder to do and (c) it is especially hard to do with a new group & company. Perhaps less universally (d) it's really hard with mixed hardware/software groups. It's undoubtedly true that lots of large organizations do it, with varying levels of success but generally pretty well (there are exceptions). It's also true that they invest a fair amount into making this work, in my experience, and the infrastructure matters. I've experienced very well functioning remote groups, less so mixed remote/local - but I certainly believe it's possible. It's always required more effort and intention, and they've never quite reached the same level of cohesion as some small local teams. As you note though, YMMV. Also I didn't mean to suggest "remote work == just a paycheck" though I can see how that might be ambiguous.
- cbdumas 6y ago
  > [T]here are others who ... don’t have the need for human connection (because they get that from their family and friends) from their job, only a paycheck. I don't have a problem with people who feel that way, but for myself I would find that very bleak given the substantial fraction of my life I am expected to spend working. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
sushshshsh 6y ago
Imagine forcing me to risk my life in a horrible commute through a stupid city just because you can't talk to me on the phone
- Falling3 6y ago
  Imagine framing someone else's personal experiences and preferences as an exaggerated death wish for yourself.
  - lwigo 6y ago
    Imagine bowing to others demands because they are incapable of understanding your personal experience and preference.
    - Falling3 6y ago
      There are absolutely no demands being made here.
      - lwigo 6y ago
        Fair, but the original comment was setup as a scenario in which workers would have to return to the office, presumably against their will (they felt that their health would be threatened).
        sushshshsh 6y ago
        Right? Like I don't understand how the comment said "no demand is being made here". Like, so just one person will return to the office and everyone else can stay home?
        stronglikedan 6y ago
        Sure. Why not? We're doing it. If you want to stay home, stay home. If you want to come to the office, we'll make a space for you. I didn't infer any demands from OP's comment.

toomuchtodo 6y ago

Conversely, there are others who feel the opposite and love working from home (no shared workspace with coworkers, the freedom to work in their home environment how they want) and don’t have the need for human connection (because they get that from their family and friends) from their job, only a paycheck. Lots more remote work now for remote folks (with businesses required to have a go at it, and learning it’s easier than expected), and I’m sure office folks will still find businesses that will offer that model.

ska 6y ago
I agree with your general contention that others may love the idea of indefinite work-from-home, but I don't think the poster was claiming work as the source of your life's human connections. I read it as work without those connections lost meaning (for them). I can see that point - many of my best experiences doing difficult technical work have been with very tight knit teams that are difficult to maintain working remotely, let alone create. Which isn't to say its-just-a-paycheck jobs are wrong in any sense, just that it's not enough for everyone.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  I’ve worked remote for the last ~10 years and have had such moments with a team, so I’m skeptical that this requires in person collaboration to achieve these shared flow states (for lack of a better description). Please forgive the bluntness of my opinion. First the business world made excuses that remote work just wasn’t as productive as in person work, and then a pandemic forced an experiment that proved that assertion to be untrue. Now the excuse is, “well, remote just isn’t as good as in person for building team bonds and collaboration” even when teams at billion dollar orgs (both young and old) are able to do so. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but facts and data are not negotiable, and this is important distinction when large scale presence decisions are being made for workforces.
  - ISL 6y ago
    The tightest professional relationships I've made in many moons were made entirely remote during some Covid-19 relief work. I still haven't met any of them in person, but there was as much humanity in that project as we ever get working-from-work.
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      Shared struggle can generate cohesion regardless of locality. Happy to hear this anecdote.
  - ska 6y ago
    I don't find this blunt, it's your experience. For what it's worth, I've a experienced a fair range of what is possible. I've worked on local, mixed, and remote teams in both IC and lead roles. This experience has led me to believe that: (a) it is possible to have good cohesion in a remote group (b) it is harder to do and (c) it is especially hard to do with a new group & company. Perhaps less universally (d) it's really hard with mixed hardware/software groups. It's undoubtedly true that lots of large organizations do it, with varying levels of success but generally pretty well (there are exceptions). It's also true that they invest a fair amount into making this work, in my experience, and the infrastructure matters. I've experienced very well functioning remote groups, less so mixed remote/local - but I certainly believe it's possible. It's always required more effort and intention, and they've never quite reached the same level of cohesion as some small local teams. As you note though, YMMV. Also I didn't mean to suggest "remote work == just a paycheck" though I can see how that might be ambiguous.
cbdumas 6y ago
> [T]here are others who ... don’t have the need for human connection (because they get that from their family and friends) from their job, only a paycheck. I don't have a problem with people who feel that way, but for myself I would find that very bleak given the substantial fraction of my life I am expected to spend working. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

sushshshsh 6y ago

Imagine forcing me to risk my life in a horrible commute through a stupid city just because you can't talk to me on the phone

Falling3 6y ago
Imagine framing someone else's personal experiences and preferences as an exaggerated death wish for yourself.
- lwigo 6y ago
  Imagine bowing to others demands because they are incapable of understanding your personal experience and preference.
  - Falling3 6y ago
    There are absolutely no demands being made here.
    - lwigo 6y ago
      Fair, but the original comment was setup as a scenario in which workers would have to return to the office, presumably against their will (they felt that their health would be threatened).
      - sushshshsh 6y ago
        Right? Like I don't understand how the comment said "no demand is being made here". Like, so just one person will return to the office and everyone else can stay home?
        stronglikedan 6y ago
        Sure. Why not? We're doing it. If you want to stay home, stay home. If you want to come to the office, we'll make a space for you. I didn't infer any demands from OP's comment.