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Yea, I definitely think it's in my interest and the interest of the vast majority of iPhone users to have Apple make these decisions. I'd rather every developer

Yea, I definitely think it's in my interest and the interest of the vast majority of iPhone users to have Apple make these decisions. I'd rather every developer leave the App Store than switch away from the current model. I'd just use Apple's built-in apps.

dgellow 6y ago
Your own situation wouldn't be different if you had alternatives to Apple's store. Apple can even market their own store as the one with higher quality apps and promote their safety guarantees. Applications from another store wouldn't have to be less "safe" (depending on your definition) as other iOS applications, they would still use the same sandbox system and all the other standard APIs. You can always decide to stick to one store and not care about the rest. Considering the fact that you prefer Apple to block you from other options: it doesn't follow that they should do this to everyone, just that you would still pick that option if you had the choice.
- jabirali 6y ago
  > Your own situation wouldn't be different if you had alternatives to Apple's store. I respectfully disagree with this statement. I think an analogous situation would be the launch of Disney+: it used to be possible to watch Disney series on Netflix, but after Disney decided to launch Disney+, these series were pulled from Netflix to push the adoption of Disney+. For a Netflix user, their situation would very much be affected by Disney+ existing.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    Yeah, users have very little choice when it comes to where to get software and so "choice" in Apple's garden doesn't actually translate to user choice but developer/publisher choice since users will have to buy from wherever the software is sold.
- damnyou 6y ago
  It is an open secret that Apple cannot build secure software, that its sandboxing is subpar and that the app store compensates for its failings — kind of how a totalitarian state with weak internal structures compensates for it through inflicting violence. Where the pedal really hits the metal is with the cost of buying zero day exploits. iOS exploits can be had for much cheaper than Android ones.
McDyver 6y ago
I understand that, as a consumer, you don't want to be bothered to know all the implications of your choices, if you had to make them, so you're happy to delegate them to Apple. But who's to say that Apple has your interests in mind, and not their own, and makes a choice for you that is actually detrimental to you and beneficial to them? Let's say, by locking you in, and preventing any competition. How would you feel if every other company you buy from did the same?
- Spivak 6y ago
  This isn't about delegating choices to Apple because without gatekeepers actually being able to enforce behavior users have no advocates and get stuck with software that toes the line of being just tolerable enough to use. Vote with your wallets doesn't really work since people will put up with plenty of abuses for software that's useful enough to them. Vote with politics doesn't really work either because regulators are very hesitant to regulate tech and kill the cash cow. People, like me, are so fiercely loyal to Apple because seemingly no other company has been able to strongarm developers into not being shitty to their users.
- mlindner 6y ago
  > But who's to say that Apple has your interests in mind, and not their own, and makes a choice for you that is actually detrimental to you and beneficial to them? Let's say, by locking you in, and preventing any competition. If they didn't have my interests in mind I wouldn't buy their products (which is why I don't buy any more Google products, their customers are the ad companies, not the people who buy/use their products). Companies make products for their customers with the customer's interest in mind in order to make a product that sells the best.
manigandham 6y ago
So how does choice prevent you from doing that? Mac apps do just fine with other install options while most still choose the App Store for ease and security.
- michaelt 6y ago
  Sometimes you get a better deal when you have fewer options. For example, iPhone/iPad users being unable to install Adobe Flash accelerated its demise hugely, by motivating websites to remove Flash, not just add 'please install' links.

dgellow 6y ago

Your own situation wouldn't be different if you had alternatives to Apple's store. Apple can even market their own store as the one with higher quality apps and promote their safety guarantees. Applications from another store wouldn't have to be less "safe" (depending on your definition) as other iOS applications, they would still use the same sandbox system and all the other standard APIs. You can always decide to stick to one store and not care about the rest. Considering the fact that you prefer Apple to block you from other options: it doesn't follow that they should do this to everyone, just that you would still pick that option if you had the choice.

jabirali 6y ago
> Your own situation wouldn't be different if you had alternatives to Apple's store. I respectfully disagree with this statement. I think an analogous situation would be the launch of Disney+: it used to be possible to watch Disney series on Netflix, but after Disney decided to launch Disney+, these series were pulled from Netflix to push the adoption of Disney+. For a Netflix user, their situation would very much be affected by Disney+ existing.
- Spivak 6y ago
  Yeah, users have very little choice when it comes to where to get software and so "choice" in Apple's garden doesn't actually translate to user choice but developer/publisher choice since users will have to buy from wherever the software is sold.
damnyou 6y ago
It is an open secret that Apple cannot build secure software, that its sandboxing is subpar and that the app store compensates for its failings — kind of how a totalitarian state with weak internal structures compensates for it through inflicting violence. Where the pedal really hits the metal is with the cost of buying zero day exploits. iOS exploits can be had for much cheaper than Android ones.

McDyver 6y ago

I understand that, as a consumer, you don't want to be bothered to know all the implications of your choices, if you had to make them, so you're happy to delegate them to Apple. But who's to say that Apple has your interests in mind, and not their own, and makes a choice for you that is actually detrimental to you and beneficial to them? Let's say, by locking you in, and preventing any competition. How would you feel if every other company you buy from did the same?

Spivak 6y ago
This isn't about delegating choices to Apple because without gatekeepers actually being able to enforce behavior users have no advocates and get stuck with software that toes the line of being just tolerable enough to use. Vote with your wallets doesn't really work since people will put up with plenty of abuses for software that's useful enough to them. Vote with politics doesn't really work either because regulators are very hesitant to regulate tech and kill the cash cow. People, like me, are so fiercely loyal to Apple because seemingly no other company has been able to strongarm developers into not being shitty to their users.
mlindner 6y ago
> But who's to say that Apple has your interests in mind, and not their own, and makes a choice for you that is actually detrimental to you and beneficial to them? Let's say, by locking you in, and preventing any competition. If they didn't have my interests in mind I wouldn't buy their products (which is why I don't buy any more Google products, their customers are the ad companies, not the people who buy/use their products). Companies make products for their customers with the customer's interest in mind in order to make a product that sells the best.

manigandham 6y ago

So how does choice prevent you from doing that? Mac apps do just fine with other install options while most still choose the App Store for ease and security.

michaelt 6y ago
Sometimes you get a better deal when you have fewer options. For example, iPhone/iPad users being unable to install Adobe Flash accelerated its demise hugely, by motivating websites to remove Flash, not just add 'please install' links.