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That's not true. Epic which developers Fortnite isn't the same holding company which developers UE. If Epic's game developers accounts are closed it should have

That's not true. Epic which developers Fortnite isn't the same holding company which developers UE. If Epic's game developers accounts are closed it should have no affect to the Epic accounts for UE. * Epic Games, Inc. develops Fortnite and has an Apple developer account that it is released under. * Epic Games International, S.a.r.l. develops Unreal Engine and holds its own Apple developer account. So if the accounts of Epic Games, Inc. were closed, who cares. If Epic Games International's accounts were closed, then yes that's wrong of Apple to do.

drevil-v2 6y ago
But it is effectively the same company though; controlled by the same principals. That would be like Google in Mountain View claiming that they don't avoid paying tax and they are the good guys, but Google SA Netherlands & Ireland who are the assholes who scam countries out of their share of tax revenue (The Dutch Irish sandwich tax loophole that they use).
onion2k 6y ago
This is a quote from the letter that Apple sent to Epic; "If your membership is terminated, you may no longer submit apps to the App Store, and your apps still available for distribution will be removed. You will also lose access to the following programs, technologies, and capabilities:" [...] "- Engineering efforts to improve hardware and software performance of Unreal Engine on Mac and iOS hardware; optimize Unreal Engine on the Mac for creative workflows, virtual sets and their CI/Build Systems; and adoption and support of ARKit features and future VR features into Unreal Engine by their XR team" That is a statement that Apple made saying they will stop all help they give to Epic getting UE running on all Apple hardware. With the other stuff in the letter it makes it very clear that the problem is not just one for Epic Games, but all of Epic. You can read it yourself - https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/epic-v-apple-8-17-20-768927327.pdf https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/epic-v-apple-8-17-20-768927327... (Apple's letter starts on page 51 of the PDF)
- philliphaydon 6y ago
  Thanks for sharing. Ah so Epic couples it all together.
  - onion2k 6y ago
    Not just Epic. Apple do. If you think Epic Games and Epic International are wholly separate then telling Epic Games "Engineering efforts to improve hardware and software performance of Unreal Engine on Mac and iOS hardware;" would make no sense. It's very clear that Apple are threatening to do things that impact all of Epic in that letter. What's less clear is whether or not Apple would have actually revoked Epic International's developer accounts. You might like to give Apple the benefit of the doubt, but it's ambiguous enough for a court to issue a ruling that Apple aren't allowed to do that. This is obviously not just Epic catastrophizing if the court agreed with them and ruled in their favor on that part.
    - sjwright 6y ago
      Common sense ties them together. While the Fortnite app was in violation of terms, it wasn’t the app itself which violated the terms—it was the corporation.
      - mschuster91 6y ago
        > Common sense ties them together. The problem is that the US judicial system, thanks to its focus on precedent cases no matter how old they are, and "modern common sense" don't always fit together.
      - mcphage 6y ago
        > While the Fortnite app was in violation of terms, it wasn’t the app itself which violated the terms—it was the corporation. Definitely not. If you have multiple apps in the App Store, and one is removed for violating the terms, the rest should not be removed, since the others didn’t violate those terms.
modeless 6y ago
Yes, Epic Games International's accounts were (threatened to be) closed. Yes, it was wrong of Apple to threaten that.

drevil-v2 6y ago

But it is effectively the same company though; controlled by the same principals. That would be like Google in Mountain View claiming that they don't avoid paying tax and they are the good guys, but Google SA Netherlands & Ireland who are the assholes who scam countries out of their share of tax revenue (The Dutch Irish sandwich tax loophole that they use).

onion2k 6y ago

This is a quote from the letter that Apple sent to Epic; "If your membership is terminated, you may no longer submit apps to the App Store, and your apps still available for distribution will be removed. You will also lose access to the following programs, technologies, and capabilities:" [...] "- Engineering efforts to improve hardware and software performance of Unreal Engine on Mac and iOS hardware; optimize Unreal Engine on the Mac for creative workflows, virtual sets and their CI/Build Systems; and adoption and support of ARKit features and future VR features into Unreal Engine by their XR team" That is a statement that Apple made saying they will stop all help they give to Epic getting UE running on all Apple hardware. With the other stuff in the letter it makes it very clear that the problem is not just one for Epic Games, but all of Epic. You can read it yourself - https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/epic-v-apple-8-17-20-768927327.pdf https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/epic-v-apple-8-17-20-768927327... (Apple's letter starts on page 51 of the PDF)

philliphaydon 6y ago
Thanks for sharing. Ah so Epic couples it all together.
- onion2k 6y ago
  Not just Epic. Apple do. If you think Epic Games and Epic International are wholly separate then telling Epic Games "Engineering efforts to improve hardware and software performance of Unreal Engine on Mac and iOS hardware;" would make no sense. It's very clear that Apple are threatening to do things that impact all of Epic in that letter. What's less clear is whether or not Apple would have actually revoked Epic International's developer accounts. You might like to give Apple the benefit of the doubt, but it's ambiguous enough for a court to issue a ruling that Apple aren't allowed to do that. This is obviously not just Epic catastrophizing if the court agreed with them and ruled in their favor on that part.
  - sjwright 6y ago
    Common sense ties them together. While the Fortnite app was in violation of terms, it wasn’t the app itself which violated the terms—it was the corporation.
    - mschuster91 6y ago
      > Common sense ties them together. The problem is that the US judicial system, thanks to its focus on precedent cases no matter how old they are, and "modern common sense" don't always fit together.
    - mcphage 6y ago
      > While the Fortnite app was in violation of terms, it wasn’t the app itself which violated the terms—it was the corporation. Definitely not. If you have multiple apps in the App Store, and one is removed for violating the terms, the rest should not be removed, since the others didn’t violate those terms.

modeless 6y ago

Yes, Epic Games International's accounts were (threatened to be) closed. Yes, it was wrong of Apple to threaten that.