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One time only: Yes. Recurring monthly: NEVER. There are bazillion apps out there, mostly free or comes with free tier. Unless this is $9.99 or lower, I would n

One time only: Yes. Recurring monthly: NEVER. There are bazillion apps out there, mostly free or comes with free tier. Unless this is $9.99 or lower, I would never consider. Just my opinion.

jwr 6y ago
> Recurring monthly: NEVER. [...] Unless this is $9.99 or lower, I would never consider. And yet, you likely expect regular updates when the OS is updated, a constant stream of bug fixes, and (probably) some improvements. In other words, you expect regular development for a one-time fee of $9.99 or lower. $9.99 is the cost of about 5 minutes of a skilled programmer's time. This is not realistic and definitely not sustainable.
- prerok 6y ago
  And yet, we expect games to be at this price or lower with the same hard constraints and I would argue they take even more work. That's just the economy of scale. I also think that anything beyond $10 is too pricey. Monthly plan? No way.
  - padmadevu 6y ago
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  - jwr 6y ago
    In other words, we expect "others" to pay for us through economies of scale. This might work for top-tier video games, but it definitely does not work for niche software.
    - prerok 6y ago
      Exactly. If you are developing a product you have to make sure that it reaches a sufficient number of people that would pay a certain amount. Number of customers times the price and you get your expected income. If that is too low then don't spend your time on it cause you'll just be losing money. Consider, if your argument is taken to its absurd extreme, then you would have to pay for full development of any software you use by yourself. Just running Windows or MacOS would cost you millions if not billions of dollars. Edit, addendum: you can also view it that the money needed for development is then covered distributedly among the customers. Nobody is expecting others to pay for them but the expense is too big for a few customers to cover it (at least for this type of software).
      - jwr 6y ago
        > Exactly. If you are developing a product you have to make sure that it reaches a sufficient number of people that would pay a certain amount. Number of customers times the price and you get your expected income. If that is too low then don't spend your time on it cause you'll just be losing money. I hope it doesn't come to that. Because then we'd only end up with apps like Fortnite, Adobe Photoshop, and Microsoft Office. All the specialized apps would be gone, and if you need something in an industry that just isn't that large, well tough luck, because at $9.99/app the developers won't ever make a living. Look, it's fine to only need mass-market apps. But let other people make niche apps and charge an amount that results in sustainable software development, without criticizing them for subscription pricing. Subscription pricing is the only sustainable way to maintain a niche app.
- detritus 6y ago
  What ever happened to paid-for version updates?
  - jwr 6y ago
    These are a convenient fiction, resulting in bloat because of developers trying to cram additional features into their applications, to justify the cost of a version update.
- deergomoo 6y ago
  One of the worst things mobile did was completely destroy reasonable expectations for software pricing. Don't get me wrong, it's good that more software is more accessible to more people than ever before, but for a long time we've been at the point where it's very difficult for an app that costs anything up front to succeed on mobile.
  - zmix 6y ago
    > One of the worst things mobile did was completely destroy reasonable expectations for software pricing. But hasn't the market for app sales grown in sheer volume due to the AppStores reaching and channeling millions and millions of potential customers?
    - robenkleene 6y ago
      The most successful creative mobile app ever, Procreate (the #1 paid app in the iOS App Store) employs about 20 people. Adobe employs over 20,000. You can say more individual developers are making money (at the expense of individual companies), but with the way things are going, we'll never see industry transforming apps like Illustrator, Ableton Live, After Effects emerge from this model. The main impact the pricing race to the bottom has had on powerful software is that its shifted from a “one-time price charge to and individual” model, to a “subscription price charged to a company” model, e.g., Adobe CS, Figma, Notion, Office, etc... I suppose there are people who think this is all well and dandy, but to me it’s the biggest step backwards for innovation in our industry since I started my career.
- system2 6y ago
  How much should a note taking app cost? $5 a month? No. Barely $1 a month maybe. I am willing to pay 1 year subscription fee up front. We have free note apps, asana, microsoft onenote, google keep, evernote, heck I am using the default apps that comes with my phone, or even on windows notepad itself. How much is a niche note taking app worth to you? To me, one time if super premium and bugfree, I can sacrifice $9 which is way above the apps on the market. Premium camera apps are $4-5 and they are packed with very nice tools. KyPass was $6.99 which is a lifesaver. Strava is free, some sysadmin tools I use are ranging from $2-5 on my phone. I just can't imagine paying monthly subscription fee for note taking app, even if it comes with task management etc.
  - hairofadog 6y ago
    That strikes me as a perfectly valid point of view. To me, a niche note-taking app is worth a lot, and I'm happy to pay a lot for it. In fact, I try to avoid apps that don't seem to have a sustainable business plan, as my assumption is they'll either go out of business or get themselves acquired and shelved. Luckily, it seems like there are plenty of options for both of us.
- lghh 6y ago
  Pricing isn't based on the labor involved, it's based on supply and demand. Turns out, there's a lot of supply for note taking apps no matter how much labor it takes to make a good one.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  A skilled, but non-exclusive, dev costs $1200 an hour?
  - jwr 6y ago
    Huh? $10 for 5 minutes is about $120 an hour. Which is a a way-too-low estimate of the fully loaded cost of a skilled developer.
    - Chris2048 6y ago
      You are right. That said, I have 2 points for that comment, so I guess it went unnoticed...

One time only: Yes. Recurring monthly: NEVER. There are bazillion apps out there, mostly free or comes with free tier. Unless this is $9.99 or lower, I would never consider. Just my opinion.

jwr 6y ago

> Recurring monthly: NEVER. [...] Unless this is $9.99 or lower, I would never consider. And yet, you likely expect regular updates when the OS is updated, a constant stream of bug fixes, and (probably) some improvements. In other words, you expect regular development for a one-time fee of $9.99 or lower. $9.99 is the cost of about 5 minutes of a skilled programmer's time. This is not realistic and definitely not sustainable.

prerok 6y ago
And yet, we expect games to be at this price or lower with the same hard constraints and I would argue they take even more work. That's just the economy of scale. I also think that anything beyond $10 is too pricey. Monthly plan? No way.
- padmadevu 6y ago
  Nice Article!!! Thank you for sharing such a great Article!!! https://devu.in/devops-certification-training-in-bangalore/ https://devu.in/devops-certification-training-in-bangalore/
- jwr 6y ago
  In other words, we expect "others" to pay for us through economies of scale. This might work for top-tier video games, but it definitely does not work for niche software.
  - prerok 6y ago
    Exactly. If you are developing a product you have to make sure that it reaches a sufficient number of people that would pay a certain amount. Number of customers times the price and you get your expected income. If that is too low then don't spend your time on it cause you'll just be losing money. Consider, if your argument is taken to its absurd extreme, then you would have to pay for full development of any software you use by yourself. Just running Windows or MacOS would cost you millions if not billions of dollars. Edit, addendum: you can also view it that the money needed for development is then covered distributedly among the customers. Nobody is expecting others to pay for them but the expense is too big for a few customers to cover it (at least for this type of software).
    - jwr 6y ago
      > Exactly. If you are developing a product you have to make sure that it reaches a sufficient number of people that would pay a certain amount. Number of customers times the price and you get your expected income. If that is too low then don't spend your time on it cause you'll just be losing money. I hope it doesn't come to that. Because then we'd only end up with apps like Fortnite, Adobe Photoshop, and Microsoft Office. All the specialized apps would be gone, and if you need something in an industry that just isn't that large, well tough luck, because at $9.99/app the developers won't ever make a living. Look, it's fine to only need mass-market apps. But let other people make niche apps and charge an amount that results in sustainable software development, without criticizing them for subscription pricing. Subscription pricing is the only sustainable way to maintain a niche app.
detritus 6y ago
What ever happened to paid-for version updates?
- jwr 6y ago
  These are a convenient fiction, resulting in bloat because of developers trying to cram additional features into their applications, to justify the cost of a version update.
deergomoo 6y ago
One of the worst things mobile did was completely destroy reasonable expectations for software pricing. Don't get me wrong, it's good that more software is more accessible to more people than ever before, but for a long time we've been at the point where it's very difficult for an app that costs anything up front to succeed on mobile.
- zmix 6y ago
  > One of the worst things mobile did was completely destroy reasonable expectations for software pricing. But hasn't the market for app sales grown in sheer volume due to the AppStores reaching and channeling millions and millions of potential customers?
  - robenkleene 6y ago
    The most successful creative mobile app ever, Procreate (the #1 paid app in the iOS App Store) employs about 20 people. Adobe employs over 20,000. You can say more individual developers are making money (at the expense of individual companies), but with the way things are going, we'll never see industry transforming apps like Illustrator, Ableton Live, After Effects emerge from this model. The main impact the pricing race to the bottom has had on powerful software is that its shifted from a “one-time price charge to and individual” model, to a “subscription price charged to a company” model, e.g., Adobe CS, Figma, Notion, Office, etc... I suppose there are people who think this is all well and dandy, but to me it’s the biggest step backwards for innovation in our industry since I started my career.
system2 6y ago
How much should a note taking app cost? $5 a month? No. Barely $1 a month maybe. I am willing to pay 1 year subscription fee up front. We have free note apps, asana, microsoft onenote, google keep, evernote, heck I am using the default apps that comes with my phone, or even on windows notepad itself. How much is a niche note taking app worth to you? To me, one time if super premium and bugfree, I can sacrifice $9 which is way above the apps on the market. Premium camera apps are $4-5 and they are packed with very nice tools. KyPass was $6.99 which is a lifesaver. Strava is free, some sysadmin tools I use are ranging from $2-5 on my phone. I just can't imagine paying monthly subscription fee for note taking app, even if it comes with task management etc.
- hairofadog 6y ago
  That strikes me as a perfectly valid point of view. To me, a niche note-taking app is worth a lot, and I'm happy to pay a lot for it. In fact, I try to avoid apps that don't seem to have a sustainable business plan, as my assumption is they'll either go out of business or get themselves acquired and shelved. Luckily, it seems like there are plenty of options for both of us.
lghh 6y ago
Pricing isn't based on the labor involved, it's based on supply and demand. Turns out, there's a lot of supply for note taking apps no matter how much labor it takes to make a good one.
Chris2048 6y ago
A skilled, but non-exclusive, dev costs $1200 an hour?
- jwr 6y ago
  Huh? $10 for 5 minutes is about $120 an hour. Which is a a way-too-low estimate of the fully loaded cost of a skilled developer.
  - Chris2048 6y ago
    You are right. That said, I have 2 points for that comment, so I guess it went unnoticed...