5 ms·

Really? I took the ASVAB when I was looking for ways to fund my college education and considered doing Army Reserve. The only question I had to pause on was one

by dhosek 6y ago

Really? I took the ASVAB when I was looking for ways to fund my college education and considered doing Army Reserve. The only question I had to pause on was one about manual transmissions (I'd never driven stick before and couldn't remember how the gears were numbered on my Schwinn). The recruiter claimed to be blown away by the fact that I scored so high on the test. I was never actually given my score. I wonder if those people claiming to have aced the ASVAB were bragging with nothing to back it up. Or alternately, that some recruiters routinely tell their recruits they aced the test to help seal the deal.

tyingq 6y ago
They weren't claiming. Your scores are all posted on the wall in basic training. I walked the dorms and saw ~5 aces or very near aces out of maybe 200ish total people's scores. It's just somewhat odd because starting out as an E1 isn't terribly lucrative. It doesn't surprise me that 5 of 200 do that well. It surprises me that 5 of 200 that do so well actually enlist.
- samatman 6y ago
  I'm curious how the Montgomery GI Bill changes that calculus. My distant understanding is that a not-insignificant number of people join the military because this will give them a full ride in college. They can't make much more than the Army pays with a high school diploma, and they can't afford college without either crippling debt or something like the GI Bill. But I don't have any facts here, just going off what an old friend told me about how he ended up in Iraq in the first place.
  - tyingq 6y ago
    Sure. It's just those scores (or the implied intelligence) could probably get you into programs like the one where the Navy pays you a stipend while at college, and pays for college...before you join the military, as an officer. The other branches have similar programs. There's quite a lot of crap to go through before you get to use that GI bill money :)
    - samatman 6y ago
      Ah, that makes sense, thank you!
    - dhosek 6y ago
      That lot of crap was why I didn't follow through on enlisting—I was looking for funding for the next semester which I had hoped enlisting in the army reserve would do, but it turned out it would be at least six months before I saw any college benefits and after six months, I could do just as well on my own. It's just as well because had I done this, I would have been in the reserve for the first gulf war and been sent to Iraq, something that I would have had no desire to do (in general, army reserve would have been a very poor fit for me).
  - stn8188 6y ago
    Not just the GI Bill, but the benefits in general are a huge motivator. Where else can an 18 year old newlywed with a baby be assured that they can provide for their family? To get back to your point on the MGIB - these days the Post-9/11 GI Bill is where it's at. With the Post-9/11, a veteran can actually have public university tuition paid, plus a books stipend, plus a housing allowance (meaning they can actually afford to live in addition to finishing school). I didn't enlist for the GI Bill, but when I got out and realized the incredible opportunity I had, I just couldn't turn it down.
- docbrown 6y ago
  > It surprises me that 5 of 200 that do so well actually enlist. I’m generalizing here, but: No matter what their score was (high or low), most people are going to take the ASVAB because they want to join the military and reap the benefits of it (i.e. TRICARE, GI bill). We can’t forget that military granted health insurance covers around 3-4% of the total insured (US Census, 2019, p.3)[1]. It is also a heavily road traveled road out of poverty for many POC and low-income students. There’s a reason you see more military recruiters in counties, states, and especially schools which have a overall lower income level. But we must also remember we do not know where their true interests lie. Or if they’d be able to — or even want to — handle efficiently the responsibility of being in a higher education setting as opposed to the more structural hierarchy of the military. However, this does not take away from the fact that some of those 5 people may have a certain given ability to excel in a field that only the military provides. They may want to take that skill all the way to an Officer position instead of working up a corporate ladder. Say geography for example. Someone may have an educational knack for it and perhaps they change their military career goals toward something more technical (cyber defense, intel) instead of labor intensive (infantry). Either of these career choices would only be possible in a military setting. (Lucrative military contractor and paid mercenary jobs are moot points for this discussion.) In the end, I do not think the ASVAB should be looked at as a moment of enlightenment the same way the SAT would be. They are serving two different purposes and a majority of people sitting in the recruiters office already have their mind made up; it’s now just a matter of figuring out which base you’re attending for training and how long it’ll last. 1: https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2019/demo/p60-267.pdf https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publicatio... Edit: Just saw your reply to another user. I think you’re missing a major point: Not everybody wants to go to college. Yes there are ROTC programs and you’ll be commissioned as an officer after 4 years BUT you still have to attend school. If someone does not want to attend higher ed, telling them about a stipend and quick ranking will fall on deaf ears. They’re sitting in the recruiters office to find an escape from their current situation and reality. I’d wager most kids do not want to be told “stay in this town for 4 more years and then it’ll be better. Trust me.” They want to get out NOW and start a new life and a new career. Not be told what they want to do is wrong.
  - tyingq 6y ago
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > It surprises me that 5 of 200 that do so well actually enlist. Can't be that surprising that intelligent people value the experience of being in the military?
  - tyingq 6y ago
    In the military as bottom of the rung enlisted people, yes. I feel okay saying that, since I was there, and I was one. I had, er, blown some earlier opportunities. It's not an easy life for the first couple of years, and the pay is terrible at first.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      > In the military as bottom of the rung enlisted people, yes. Some people just want to get stuck into the work and tactics rather than all the fuss of being an officer! Being a private soldier in many units can be an extremely challenging and rewarding experience. Yes the pay isn't great for people with other opportunities, but money isn't everything in life. I know many people who could easily commission but want to stay operators because that's what they enjoy.
      - tyingq 6y ago
        I mean bottom of the rung, E1. You can do 2 years of community college and enter a couple of ranks higher.
        chrisseaton 6y ago
        But again, some people want to be doing not leading! And not everyone wants or is suited to go to college!
        dragonwriter 6y ago
        > I mean bottom of the rung, E1. You can do 2 years of community college and enter a couple of ranks higher. But...you can't. At least, not that would show up at Basic. The higher grade you get for sufficient vo/tech or collegiate study prior to enlistment is applied after graduating from Basic. AFAIK,that's true even for the programs where you enlist with guaranteed OCS after Basic, you still are an E-1 when you go to Basic though you are administratively promoted to E-5 at OCS.
- dhosek 6y ago
  5/200 is 97th percentile, roughly speaking. But I would guess that acing the test is something that general population would be able to do at 80th percentile, maybe 90th (although I'm a bad judge of such things and a quick google search reveals nothing elucidating).

by dhosek 6y ago

tyingq 6y ago

They weren't claiming. Your scores are all posted on the wall in basic training. I walked the dorms and saw ~5 aces or very near aces out of maybe 200ish total people's scores. It's just somewhat odd because starting out as an E1 isn't terribly lucrative. It doesn't surprise me that 5 of 200 do that well. It surprises me that 5 of 200 that do so well actually enlist.

samatman 6y ago
I'm curious how the Montgomery GI Bill changes that calculus. My distant understanding is that a not-insignificant number of people join the military because this will give them a full ride in college. They can't make much more than the Army pays with a high school diploma, and they can't afford college without either crippling debt or something like the GI Bill. But I don't have any facts here, just going off what an old friend told me about how he ended up in Iraq in the first place.
- tyingq 6y ago
  Sure. It's just those scores (or the implied intelligence) could probably get you into programs like the one where the Navy pays you a stipend while at college, and pays for college...before you join the military, as an officer. The other branches have similar programs. There's quite a lot of crap to go through before you get to use that GI bill money :)
  - samatman 6y ago
    Ah, that makes sense, thank you!
  - dhosek 6y ago
    That lot of crap was why I didn't follow through on enlisting—I was looking for funding for the next semester which I had hoped enlisting in the army reserve would do, but it turned out it would be at least six months before I saw any college benefits and after six months, I could do just as well on my own. It's just as well because had I done this, I would have been in the reserve for the first gulf war and been sent to Iraq, something that I would have had no desire to do (in general, army reserve would have been a very poor fit for me).
- stn8188 6y ago
  Not just the GI Bill, but the benefits in general are a huge motivator. Where else can an 18 year old newlywed with a baby be assured that they can provide for their family? To get back to your point on the MGIB - these days the Post-9/11 GI Bill is where it's at. With the Post-9/11, a veteran can actually have public university tuition paid, plus a books stipend, plus a housing allowance (meaning they can actually afford to live in addition to finishing school). I didn't enlist for the GI Bill, but when I got out and realized the incredible opportunity I had, I just couldn't turn it down.
docbrown 6y ago
> It surprises me that 5 of 200 that do so well actually enlist. I’m generalizing here, but: No matter what their score was (high or low), most people are going to take the ASVAB because they want to join the military and reap the benefits of it (i.e. TRICARE, GI bill). We can’t forget that military granted health insurance covers around 3-4% of the total insured (US Census, 2019, p.3)[1]. It is also a heavily road traveled road out of poverty for many POC and low-income students. There’s a reason you see more military recruiters in counties, states, and especially schools which have a overall lower income level. But we must also remember we do not know where their true interests lie. Or if they’d be able to — or even want to — handle efficiently the responsibility of being in a higher education setting as opposed to the more structural hierarchy of the military. However, this does not take away from the fact that some of those 5 people may have a certain given ability to excel in a field that only the military provides. They may want to take that skill all the way to an Officer position instead of working up a corporate ladder. Say geography for example. Someone may have an educational knack for it and perhaps they change their military career goals toward something more technical (cyber defense, intel) instead of labor intensive (infantry). Either of these career choices would only be possible in a military setting. (Lucrative military contractor and paid mercenary jobs are moot points for this discussion.) In the end, I do not think the ASVAB should be looked at as a moment of enlightenment the same way the SAT would be. They are serving two different purposes and a majority of people sitting in the recruiters office already have their mind made up; it’s now just a matter of figuring out which base you’re attending for training and how long it’ll last. 1: https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2019/demo/p60-267.pdf https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publicatio... Edit: Just saw your reply to another user. I think you’re missing a major point: Not everybody wants to go to college. Yes there are ROTC programs and you’ll be commissioned as an officer after 4 years BUT you still have to attend school. If someone does not want to attend higher ed, telling them about a stipend and quick ranking will fall on deaf ears. They’re sitting in the recruiters office to find an escape from their current situation and reality. I’d wager most kids do not want to be told “stay in this town for 4 more years and then it’ll be better. Trust me.” They want to get out NOW and start a new life and a new career. Not be told what they want to do is wrong.
- tyingq 6y ago
chrisseaton 6y ago
> It surprises me that 5 of 200 that do so well actually enlist. Can't be that surprising that intelligent people value the experience of being in the military?
- tyingq 6y ago
  In the military as bottom of the rung enlisted people, yes. I feel okay saying that, since I was there, and I was one. I had, er, blown some earlier opportunities. It's not an easy life for the first couple of years, and the pay is terrible at first.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > In the military as bottom of the rung enlisted people, yes. Some people just want to get stuck into the work and tactics rather than all the fuss of being an officer! Being a private soldier in many units can be an extremely challenging and rewarding experience. Yes the pay isn't great for people with other opportunities, but money isn't everything in life. I know many people who could easily commission but want to stay operators because that's what they enjoy.
    - tyingq 6y ago
      I mean bottom of the rung, E1. You can do 2 years of community college and enter a couple of ranks higher.
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        But again, some people want to be doing not leading! And not everyone wants or is suited to go to college!
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > I mean bottom of the rung, E1. You can do 2 years of community college and enter a couple of ranks higher. But...you can't. At least, not that would show up at Basic. The higher grade you get for sufficient vo/tech or collegiate study prior to enlistment is applied after graduating from Basic. AFAIK,that's true even for the programs where you enlist with guaranteed OCS after Basic, you still are an E-1 when you go to Basic though you are administratively promoted to E-5 at OCS.
dhosek 6y ago
5/200 is 97th percentile, roughly speaking. But I would guess that acing the test is something that general population would be able to do at 80th percentile, maybe 90th (although I'm a bad judge of such things and a quick google search reveals nothing elucidating).