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Ok so we have to play by the rules to the absolute T. But our adversaries like China/Russia can play dirty and anyway they want, because you say justice is abso
by throw_this_one 6y ago
Ok so we have to play by the rules to the absolute T. But our adversaries like China/Russia can play dirty and anyway they want, because you say justice is absolute and black and white. Great.
- gostsamo 6y agoHave you ever thought that maybe there was a reason for those rules to be imposed? It is really easy to put on the kindergarten act and to say that if the other side did it first, then it is okay. However, what is the difference between you and the other side then? The state has rather enormous power as it is and it is quite able to use it without letting the power trips of random individuals.
- throw_this_one 6y agoIf you understand these programs they have... they do a meta-analysis of huge amounts of data. So while they use your data, there isn’t somebody personally looking at your data. Whereas China/Russia has people tracking dissidents etc. Not even in the same realm. Im saying give a more nuanced legal approach so we can defend ourselves.
- gostsamo 6y agoIf it was just about meta data, maybe. However, the US (I accept that we are talking them now) have the lovely habit of imprisoning and torturing people on the bases of suspicion, without a due process, and without oversight or consequences for the fuckups. You see, the rules are exactly for the situations when some innocent bastard gets between the teeth of the machine and some middle manager orders for the body to be buried because murders look bad in the quarterly performance review.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago> Whereas China/Russia has people tracking dissidents etc. If you think the USA doesn't track dissidents you've been walking around with your eyes and ears shut.
- mc32 6y agoIt depends on who is doing the tracking and who the dissidents are. I think most will agree it’s in the interest of the country to track “dissidents” who are bent on inciting “race” wars and so on. Violent anarchists probably also get in that list. Basically any seriously credible threat to the state and its citizens.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y agoDo you believe it is reasonable to draw a distinction between dissident and criminal?
- mc32 6y agoIn many aspects yes but you also don’t want surprises. Most members of those groups haven’t been caught doing criminal activity; does that mean you ignore them because they haven’t struck. If you hear rumblings about a heist it makes sense to monitor the conspirators even if they have not yet done the heist.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y agoConspiracy to commit crime is already a crime. Being a dissident, not so much.
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- throw_this_one 6y agoComparing what the US does to citizens to what Russia/China do is laughable and childish.
- ashtonkem 6y agoAre you asserting that that’s a bad thing?
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- coliveira 6y agoIf these rules are not followed, then what is the difference between us, Russia, and others? The amount of propaganda coming from Washington?
- throw_this_one 6y agoThe rules are too strict. Have reasonable rules. Otherwise enemies exploit your Achilles heel. If you want to die on the hill of a subjective concept of morality, fine. But I don’t and I don’t think most do.
- coliveira 6y agoThe US point of view is more concerned about making enemies than solving problems. This is the Achilles heel of this country. For all its problems, the Chinese are engaged in the right approach: make alliances instead of war and improve their economy.
- ashtonkem 6y agoIt seems that you’re implying that allowing intelligence agencies unlimited discretion in spying on their own populations is necessary in order to “win” against hostile foreign powers. This seems like a fairly extraordinary claim that you haven’t backed with either evidence or logic.
- throw_this_one 6y agoI never said unlimited. Limited would be fine, enough to even the field.
- ashtonkem 6y agoHow does spying on your own citizens “even the field”?