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I hadn't actually seen that about Vitamin D, I appreciate you pointing it out. I wasn't arguing anything about it being a steroid -- but the overall intention

I hadn't actually seen that about Vitamin D, I appreciate you pointing it out. I wasn't arguing anything about it being a steroid -- but the overall intention of the article is to "be careful", is it not? If you "treat it as medication" (even if you're not saying it is), what's the intention of that communication?

DoreenMichele 6y ago
I think the underlying message is that people do not respect the power of supplements -- or even food, really -- because we think of them as fundamentally different from "medication." I think the intent is "These things are, in fact, powerful and need to be taken seriously." My personal framing is "life is chemistry" and every single thing you put into your mouth impacts your chemistry. Over time, it all makes a difference. But I'm just a stranger on the internet with a medical condition and, like Rodney Dangerfield, I don't get no respect. (shrug)
- KerryJones 6y ago
  It is significantly different than medication -- in death rate, OD rate, way that we modify the body, etc. I agree they have similarities but to treat them with the same level of caution (which feels like the emphasis here) would imply a similar level of risk, and I've seen no data that supports that. If you (or the author) has any, I would love to see it.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    I'm not really interested in having some big argument with a stranger on the internet over this. I have already told you that I think you are being overly pedantic and her writing will likely improve and get clearer with practice. I don't agree with you about food and supplements being less powerful than medication. But it's always a can of worms for me to try to present my point of view on that, in part because my so-called qualifications are "I'm a former homemaker who failed to die after doctors wrote me off for dead" and I have had people who think of themselves as very scientific tell me straight up that "Thirteen years of steady forward progress on your incurable condition is not proof you know anything. Wild coincidence. Stranger things have happened." (And now it's been like nineteen and a half years of "wild coincidence" and my patience for being dismissed over that is at an all time low.) So while I have no objection whatsoever to talking at length with someone genuinely curious to understand why I think food and supplements are at least as powerful if not more powerful than medication, I have zero reason to believe that's what's going on here and I have zero interest in having some pointless internet fight where you dig your heels and decide I'm stupid and I dig my heels and decide you're a jerk. I suggest you just set aside your judginess of the defects of this early blog post of hers and give her a little growing room and see where she goes with this and see if future posts by her make more sense to you. There's a pandemic on and we are all cranky and short tempered and so forth and doubling down on a minor point like this isn't going to go anywhere good.
    - KerryJones 6y ago
      > I'm not really interested in having some big argument with a stranger on the internet over this I'm not either -- but you've questioned something that I care about and have dug into quite a bit. And yes, you don't know me, but I consistently adjust my opinion with more data and engage happily with new information all the time and adjust my viewpoints consistently. You've used quite a bit of attacking words and presumed I'm some internet troll (again without knowing who I am), by calling me pedantic, assuming I'm going to "dig my heels in", patronizingly telling me to "set aside my judginess" to "give her some growing room". I am excited to see evidence-based research by her as that's what she's talking about. > So while I have no objection whatsoever to talking at length with someone genuinely curious to understand why I think food and supplements are at least as powerful I beg to differ, as that's me, and yet you're still showing behavior despite me specifically asking for references to show you otherwise. I linked elsewhere (and can link again) my own. I don't consider the main point of her article a minor point as you are describing, which is clearly something we disagree on, and yes, we're on short tempers (I'm no exception) but your post feels pretty hypocritical to me.
      - DoreenMichele 6y ago
        It's not intended to attack you. I am trying to tell you I know from long experience that someone arguing the way you are arguing is someone who isn't really interested in my point of view. You want studies and even if I come up with studies, it will somehow never be enough because of who I am and why I hold the opinions I hold. I came back to say "I don't see this discussion going good places." That was intended to be a courtesy to let you know I'm sure your interest is sincere but I'm not someone in a position to "convince" you. You and I see it differently. I'm not going to pretend that I think you are right. But I'm not someone with any credibility. I didn't want to just give you the silent treatment. That seemed rude to me, but perhaps would have been wiser. For reasons unrelated to you and this discussion, I am wishing I had never heard of Hacker News and that fact is probably making it difficult for me to not sound screechy no matter how hard I try today. You will need to excuse me, but I just cannot continue this discussion.

DoreenMichele 6y ago

I think the underlying message is that people do not respect the power of supplements -- or even food, really -- because we think of them as fundamentally different from "medication." I think the intent is "These things are, in fact, powerful and need to be taken seriously." My personal framing is "life is chemistry" and every single thing you put into your mouth impacts your chemistry. Over time, it all makes a difference. But I'm just a stranger on the internet with a medical condition and, like Rodney Dangerfield, I don't get no respect. (shrug)

KerryJones 6y ago
It is significantly different than medication -- in death rate, OD rate, way that we modify the body, etc. I agree they have similarities but to treat them with the same level of caution (which feels like the emphasis here) would imply a similar level of risk, and I've seen no data that supports that. If you (or the author) has any, I would love to see it.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  I'm not really interested in having some big argument with a stranger on the internet over this. I have already told you that I think you are being overly pedantic and her writing will likely improve and get clearer with practice. I don't agree with you about food and supplements being less powerful than medication. But it's always a can of worms for me to try to present my point of view on that, in part because my so-called qualifications are "I'm a former homemaker who failed to die after doctors wrote me off for dead" and I have had people who think of themselves as very scientific tell me straight up that "Thirteen years of steady forward progress on your incurable condition is not proof you know anything. Wild coincidence. Stranger things have happened." (And now it's been like nineteen and a half years of "wild coincidence" and my patience for being dismissed over that is at an all time low.) So while I have no objection whatsoever to talking at length with someone genuinely curious to understand why I think food and supplements are at least as powerful if not more powerful than medication, I have zero reason to believe that's what's going on here and I have zero interest in having some pointless internet fight where you dig your heels and decide I'm stupid and I dig my heels and decide you're a jerk. I suggest you just set aside your judginess of the defects of this early blog post of hers and give her a little growing room and see where she goes with this and see if future posts by her make more sense to you. There's a pandemic on and we are all cranky and short tempered and so forth and doubling down on a minor point like this isn't going to go anywhere good.
  - KerryJones 6y ago
    > I'm not really interested in having some big argument with a stranger on the internet over this I'm not either -- but you've questioned something that I care about and have dug into quite a bit. And yes, you don't know me, but I consistently adjust my opinion with more data and engage happily with new information all the time and adjust my viewpoints consistently. You've used quite a bit of attacking words and presumed I'm some internet troll (again without knowing who I am), by calling me pedantic, assuming I'm going to "dig my heels in", patronizingly telling me to "set aside my judginess" to "give her some growing room". I am excited to see evidence-based research by her as that's what she's talking about. > So while I have no objection whatsoever to talking at length with someone genuinely curious to understand why I think food and supplements are at least as powerful I beg to differ, as that's me, and yet you're still showing behavior despite me specifically asking for references to show you otherwise. I linked elsewhere (and can link again) my own. I don't consider the main point of her article a minor point as you are describing, which is clearly something we disagree on, and yes, we're on short tempers (I'm no exception) but your post feels pretty hypocritical to me.
    - DoreenMichele 6y ago
      It's not intended to attack you. I am trying to tell you I know from long experience that someone arguing the way you are arguing is someone who isn't really interested in my point of view. You want studies and even if I come up with studies, it will somehow never be enough because of who I am and why I hold the opinions I hold. I came back to say "I don't see this discussion going good places." That was intended to be a courtesy to let you know I'm sure your interest is sincere but I'm not someone in a position to "convince" you. You and I see it differently. I'm not going to pretend that I think you are right. But I'm not someone with any credibility. I didn't want to just give you the silent treatment. That seemed rude to me, but perhaps would have been wiser. For reasons unrelated to you and this discussion, I am wishing I had never heard of Hacker News and that fact is probably making it difficult for me to not sound screechy no matter how hard I try today. You will need to excuse me, but I just cannot continue this discussion.