6 ms·

Weird how US laws are made. App was banned in some non-cyber laws countries like India, still Tiktok unable to challenge them. But US here is getting rebuted.

tanilama 6y ago
This gives people a chance even if it is the government who is going after them, to turn the tide around. I would say this is not weird by any means, it is by intentions, and is indeed how most things go about in US. I will be more surprise to see Trump's EO go without challenges.
skybrian 6y ago
You can sue about anything. The more interesting question is whether they have a case.
afterburner 6y ago
How popular was TikTok in India? How much money could TikTok stand to make by being popular in India?
- rudiv 6y ago
  TikTok was incredibly popular in India. If I recall correctly it was their largest market outside of China. Edit: According to the company themselves, it was their largest overseas market with a userbase of 200 million.
  - bluesign 6y ago
    Yeah per user revenue is optimistically like < 1% of US/Europe probably
    - rudiv 6y ago
      Maintain your ignorant beliefs, it'll take you very far
    - blocked_again 6y ago
      I won't be so sure about that. There are some Indian states having a higher PPP than some European countries. 1:100 ratio seems to be too much. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Eu... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_states_and_union_territories_by_GDP_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_states_and_unio...
    - sirpunch 6y ago
      Simple Google search returns this: "TikTok May Lose Up To $6 Billion As Result Of India Ban" https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/07/04/tiktok-loses-6-billion-as-users-urged-delete-app-immediately/#6554e5bf1c98 https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/07/04/tiktok-lo...
nomel 6y ago
I see the government being bound and limited as a foundation of our government and, usually, a good thing.
sudosysgen 6y ago
That's because it's not a law, it's a one-sided interference of the executive. If the US Congress made a law properly, TikTok would not be able to challenge it.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > If the US Congress made a law properly, TikTok would not be able to challenge it Of course it would. The Supreme Court can "invalidate laws, acts and governmental actions that are incompatible with" the Constitution [1][2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_review https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_review [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_review_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_review_in_the_United_...
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    Banning a certain foreign company from doing business in the US is not incompatible with constitution as long as it is done following the correct process. It has been done hundreds of times and stood correctly. It could be "challenged" but it would be dismissed rapidly, because of ample precedent, and the Supreme Court would almost assuredly refuse to take the case.
    - Spivak 6y ago
      Right, but these are somewhat uncharted waters. It would be easy for congress to ban Honda doing business with the US but it's less clear if they could ban the American Honda Motor Company.
      - sudosysgen 6y ago
        Indeed. If the AHMC was wholly American owned, there is nothing that could really be done. But forcing ByteDance to divest is already achieving the goal. As for preventing the American subsidiary to be owned by the current owners, Congress has the power to personally sanction foreign individuals. Alternatively, Congress would have the power to nationalize (in exchange for a fair market price) the American subsidiary of TikTok and then sell it, legally.
asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
For all of the weaknesses of the United States, one thing we do have going for us is the strength of the rule of law here, especially where it constrains the powers of the government. India's scores on this issue, especially due process, are much lower. (In particular, check the section discussing regulatory enforcement.) https://worldjusticeproject.org/sites/default/files/documents/WJP-ROLI-2020-Online_0.pdf https://worldjusticeproject.org/sites/default/files/document...
hn_check 6y ago
How is this weird? A country of law and order and checks and balances rightly allows orders like this to be contested. India, used as the example, has a very flawed democracy and a high degree of corruption. EDIT: LOL, downvoted to oblivion by the HN India contingent. As provided elsewhere, India's democratic and corruption rankings are mediocre.
- blocked_again 6y ago
  > India, used as the example, has a very flawed democracy How come?
  - hn_check 6y ago
    https://www.eiu.com/topic/democracy-index https://www.eiu.com/topic/democracy-index https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi India is no benchmark. There are far worse countries, but if someone cites India's actions as an example, it falls flat.
    - blocked_again 6y ago
      I was asking why India has a flawed democracy. I went through the list. India is ranked around 50. If you ignore all the cute european countries like Finland, Denmark, Liechtenstein etc from the top, which doesn't even qualify as a big city in India, I would say India is doing pretty good for a country where 1/6 population of the world live.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > I would say India is doing pretty good for a country where 1/6 population of the world live. Sure, India is by far the most democratic country of its own size or larger. But that literally just means “not as bad as China”. It's kind of like if the Republic of Korea (which could support stronger claims, to be sure) was said to be “pretty good for a country located on the Korean peninsula”—it is true, but doesn't say a lot.

tanilama 6y ago

This gives people a chance even if it is the government who is going after them, to turn the tide around. I would say this is not weird by any means, it is by intentions, and is indeed how most things go about in US. I will be more surprise to see Trump's EO go without challenges.

skybrian 6y ago

You can sue about anything. The more interesting question is whether they have a case.

afterburner 6y ago

How popular was TikTok in India? How much money could TikTok stand to make by being popular in India?

rudiv 6y ago
TikTok was incredibly popular in India. If I recall correctly it was their largest market outside of China. Edit: According to the company themselves, it was their largest overseas market with a userbase of 200 million.
- bluesign 6y ago
  Yeah per user revenue is optimistically like < 1% of US/Europe probably
  - rudiv 6y ago
    Maintain your ignorant beliefs, it'll take you very far
  - blocked_again 6y ago
    I won't be so sure about that. There are some Indian states having a higher PPP than some European countries. 1:100 ratio seems to be too much. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Eu... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_states_and_union_territories_by_GDP_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_states_and_unio...
  - sirpunch 6y ago
    Simple Google search returns this: "TikTok May Lose Up To $6 Billion As Result Of India Ban" https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/07/04/tiktok-loses-6-billion-as-users-urged-delete-app-immediately/#6554e5bf1c98 https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/07/04/tiktok-lo...

nomel 6y ago

I see the government being bound and limited as a foundation of our government and, usually, a good thing.

sudosysgen 6y ago

That's because it's not a law, it's a one-sided interference of the executive. If the US Congress made a law properly, TikTok would not be able to challenge it.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> If the US Congress made a law properly, TikTok would not be able to challenge it Of course it would. The Supreme Court can "invalidate laws, acts and governmental actions that are incompatible with" the Constitution [1][2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_review https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_review [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_review_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_review_in_the_United_...
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  Banning a certain foreign company from doing business in the US is not incompatible with constitution as long as it is done following the correct process. It has been done hundreds of times and stood correctly. It could be "challenged" but it would be dismissed rapidly, because of ample precedent, and the Supreme Court would almost assuredly refuse to take the case.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    Right, but these are somewhat uncharted waters. It would be easy for congress to ban Honda doing business with the US but it's less clear if they could ban the American Honda Motor Company.
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      Indeed. If the AHMC was wholly American owned, there is nothing that could really be done. But forcing ByteDance to divest is already achieving the goal. As for preventing the American subsidiary to be owned by the current owners, Congress has the power to personally sanction foreign individuals. Alternatively, Congress would have the power to nationalize (in exchange for a fair market price) the American subsidiary of TikTok and then sell it, legally.

asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago

For all of the weaknesses of the United States, one thing we do have going for us is the strength of the rule of law here, especially where it constrains the powers of the government. India's scores on this issue, especially due process, are much lower. (In particular, check the section discussing regulatory enforcement.) https://worldjusticeproject.org/sites/default/files/documents/WJP-ROLI-2020-Online_0.pdf https://worldjusticeproject.org/sites/default/files/document...

hn_check 6y ago

How is this weird? A country of law and order and checks and balances rightly allows orders like this to be contested. India, used as the example, has a very flawed democracy and a high degree of corruption. EDIT: LOL, downvoted to oblivion by the HN India contingent. As provided elsewhere, India's democratic and corruption rankings are mediocre.

blocked_again 6y ago
> India, used as the example, has a very flawed democracy How come?
- hn_check 6y ago
  https://www.eiu.com/topic/democracy-index https://www.eiu.com/topic/democracy-index https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi India is no benchmark. There are far worse countries, but if someone cites India's actions as an example, it falls flat.
  - blocked_again 6y ago
    I was asking why India has a flawed democracy. I went through the list. India is ranked around 50. If you ignore all the cute european countries like Finland, Denmark, Liechtenstein etc from the top, which doesn't even qualify as a big city in India, I would say India is doing pretty good for a country where 1/6 population of the world live.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > I would say India is doing pretty good for a country where 1/6 population of the world live. Sure, India is by far the most democratic country of its own size or larger. But that literally just means “not as bad as China”. It's kind of like if the Republic of Korea (which could support stronger claims, to be sure) was said to be “pretty good for a country located on the Korean peninsula”—it is true, but doesn't say a lot.