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> It seems to me that a big problem with the discussions surrounding Uber and Lyft is that so many people claim they know what drivers want, but it's usually ba

> It seems to me that a big problem with the discussions surrounding Uber and Lyft is that so many people claim they know what drivers want, but it's usually based on little or no evidence. The thing is: The requirements that legislators are setting for employers are fundamental social security services. Whether a worker gets paid sick leave and vacation, health insurance and unemployment insurance is therefore not up for the debate in most Western countries. Some people may claim that they don’t need or want these services, but the reality is that everyone needs them as everyone needs vacation at some point, will get sick or fired. And because of that it’s good that the law requires them to be mandatory. This is also why so many people from low-income households in the US have trouble to afford a visit to the doctor or vacation. Those things aren’t a problem for most workers in European countries.

skybrian 6y ago
It's up for debate in the US, and I don't see why we shouldn't debate it. Is there no room for innovation in work relationships? In particular, health insurance being tied to employment seems US-specific and has a lot of drawbacks.
- Waterfall 6y ago
  The whole system is broken. You are not rewarded for living well and eating healthy or exercising, you're penalized for other people's preventable diseases, obesity being a primary preventable illness that causes other problems. Universal healthcare doesn't care about the causes of illness, it just cares about paying it's working for treating the illness. If there is no requirements for keeping health to receive health insurance, and everyone who destroys their body gets healthcare at the cost of those who don't use it because they're healthy, why would a healthy person with no illnesses want it? I'd love to see prevention before it goes to healthcare, but try even mandating soda sizes in the US... The only way is to make it unpopular like supersize me (although he was shady and never showed the food logs). Healthcare should be paternalistic by definition but American culture cares so much about freedoms they won't wear masks during a global pandemic so it's incompatible.
Waterfall 6y ago
You failed to understand his point. As a worker I don't want any of that crap. It's good that it's mandatory because someone will need it? I choose to work at these places if I want because I don't want social security crap, and I don't have a schedule so I don't need vacation and I don't need to call in sick at Uber. You like many who don't understand are putting it in the mold of a traditional job and people like you are not wondering why people choose to work long hours with no benefits, so you say everyone has to have certain hours and benefits, and are legislating without representing drivers or asking what they want. It has something to do with getting money now, not some far away 401k or social security. If I wanted European style wages I'd go to Europe where the problem becomes lower wages with useless "benefits".
- ohazi 6y ago
  If your perspective is this short-sighted, then the benefits are for society, not for you. We don't want to be stuck with the bill when you have an accident that you're clearly not anticipating and realize that you were wrong in thinking that you "don't need that crap." If you're not going to act like an adult on your own, then society is going to ask your employer to act like your babysitter.
  - Waterfall 6y ago
    It isn't short sighted, you just don't like it and try to use a moral high ground on the equivalency of why you should unfairly force me to pay for HBO when I don't watch HBO. "For society you need HBO, for later when you need it". How about you leave what other people in their lives need or want and focus on yourself?
    - mint2 6y ago
      Society isn’t going to be forced to foot your bill if you get bored and decide the only cure is HBO. Was that analogy made in serious or are you just joking? If you break your arm society will be forced to pick up the tab. If you pass out and someone calls 911 for the unconscious person, society will pick up the tab. There is no reasonable circumstances where you’d accidentally use HBO an subscription without intending to and force your neighbors to pay for it.

skybrian 6y ago

It's up for debate in the US, and I don't see why we shouldn't debate it. Is there no room for innovation in work relationships? In particular, health insurance being tied to employment seems US-specific and has a lot of drawbacks.

Waterfall 6y ago
The whole system is broken. You are not rewarded for living well and eating healthy or exercising, you're penalized for other people's preventable diseases, obesity being a primary preventable illness that causes other problems. Universal healthcare doesn't care about the causes of illness, it just cares about paying it's working for treating the illness. If there is no requirements for keeping health to receive health insurance, and everyone who destroys their body gets healthcare at the cost of those who don't use it because they're healthy, why would a healthy person with no illnesses want it? I'd love to see prevention before it goes to healthcare, but try even mandating soda sizes in the US... The only way is to make it unpopular like supersize me (although he was shady and never showed the food logs). Healthcare should be paternalistic by definition but American culture cares so much about freedoms they won't wear masks during a global pandemic so it's incompatible.

Waterfall 6y ago

You failed to understand his point. As a worker I don't want any of that crap. It's good that it's mandatory because someone will need it? I choose to work at these places if I want because I don't want social security crap, and I don't have a schedule so I don't need vacation and I don't need to call in sick at Uber. You like many who don't understand are putting it in the mold of a traditional job and people like you are not wondering why people choose to work long hours with no benefits, so you say everyone has to have certain hours and benefits, and are legislating without representing drivers or asking what they want. It has something to do with getting money now, not some far away 401k or social security. If I wanted European style wages I'd go to Europe where the problem becomes lower wages with useless "benefits".

ohazi 6y ago
If your perspective is this short-sighted, then the benefits are for society, not for you. We don't want to be stuck with the bill when you have an accident that you're clearly not anticipating and realize that you were wrong in thinking that you "don't need that crap." If you're not going to act like an adult on your own, then society is going to ask your employer to act like your babysitter.
- Waterfall 6y ago
  It isn't short sighted, you just don't like it and try to use a moral high ground on the equivalency of why you should unfairly force me to pay for HBO when I don't watch HBO. "For society you need HBO, for later when you need it". How about you leave what other people in their lives need or want and focus on yourself?
  - mint2 6y ago
    Society isn’t going to be forced to foot your bill if you get bored and decide the only cure is HBO. Was that analogy made in serious or are you just joking? If you break your arm society will be forced to pick up the tab. If you pass out and someone calls 911 for the unconscious person, society will pick up the tab. There is no reasonable circumstances where you’d accidentally use HBO an subscription without intending to and force your neighbors to pay for it.