6 ms·

I first heard that advice referenced from Scott Adams the creator of Dilbert. Where he notes that he is not a very good artist or very funny, but combining the

I first heard that advice referenced from Scott Adams the creator of Dilbert. Where he notes that he is not a very good artist or very funny, but combining the two with his background in business is why he was successful. https://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/07/career-advice.html https://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/07/car...

ZainRiz 6y ago
+1 And as patio11 says, combining engineering with good writing skills makes it very easy to be one of the top with your combined skills I’ve been trying to lean more into that advice the past couple months by publishing on my blog :) Surprisingly enough, just this morning I woke up to realize someone had shared an article I wrote and it was on the HN front page! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24251068#24262190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24251068#24262190
- non-entity 6y ago
  But does being in the top of those combined skills command top pay?
  - infermore 6y ago
    I'm pretty sure it does, but I'm also pretty sure it's okay if it doesn't.
  - ansible 6y ago
    If you're at the level where you can write a decent book on programming or something... that means guaranteed job offers for the rest of your career. Like, I haven't seen Raymond Chen's resume, but if he calls me up tomorrow looking for a job, I'll find something for him, even if we're not hiring. Ditto for Steve Klabnik, Carol Nichols, and some other people in the Rust community.
  - julianlam 6y ago
    Depends what those two or more skills are. You might be a top flight musical basket weaver but that won't pay too well.
    - rimjongun 6y ago
      You make me music baskets and I’ll find a way to make it pay well.
  - ZainRiz 6y ago
    You don't need to get paid directly for those skills to be valuable. I started brushing up on my writing skills since at the higher levels of engineering (and prob all other fields) communicating your ideas more effectively will open up way more opportunities down the line. Some of those may have monetary rewards. But the reward can be something else as well
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Engineering and writing/communication/organization is basically the definition of a tech lead. If you find me a good engineer with good communications skills, I'll get you a mid-6-figure salary no question.
  - 082349872349872 6y ago
    According to legend, a new student of Euclid’s once asked him, “What shall I get by learning these things?” In reply, Euclid beckoned his slave and told him, “Give him a coin, since he must make gain out of what he learns.”
- mywittyname 6y ago
  I'm not convinced that writing and engineering are a rare, yet sought-after combination. I'm a pretty good writer; good enough that I had several professors in college asked me to use my work as examples for future classes. It's been recognized by my peers and managers. Not much has ever really come from it. I've been given opportunities to draft "bad news" copy to be sent to clients, and I'm the point person for editing design documentation. But none of these are really roles of prestige. If anything, I'm really seen as being the person responsible for the grunt work that people don't generally enjoy doing.
  - gonzo41 6y ago
    Just ask for more money for doing it then. Or push to not do it. If you end up not doing it then your saved the work. IF they pay you money, you get the prestige.
  - verall 6y ago
    I think you are underselling yourself. As far as I can tell, at a globally distributed engineering org, clear written communication is probably more important than the code you write, because it has more impact - it has an effect on how everyone else writes their code. It might come easily to you, but me and other people I know often draft emails and such 3-4 times, asking for proofreading from trusted friends. Yea, the proofreading for docs and writing client copies isn't fun, but the skills to do these well help all of your written communication immensely. Your org could be very different, but I feel like I am recognized in large part because I care about communicating, and put a lot of effort into clear emails and docs. Part of your recognition could be because you have great writing skills.
  - ZainRiz 6y ago
    Ah, I see where you're coming from. The benefits don't accrue as much when you're writing material you've been told to write, especially when it's not something the recipient will be happy to receive. Those can be valuable learning experiences, but it's not harvest season yet. The value comes when you CHOOSE to compose messages meant to persuade YOUR peers and internal stake holders. Your skill with the pen gives you a voice, like a bard who can urge a crowd to action. What words do we associate with those kinds of people? Influence Leadership Writing can help get you there
- geebee 6y ago
  It is a great combo, but you need to have a lot of personal initiative to make it work. Here's the thing - the typical software engineer interview doesn't assess writing(or many other valuable traits that can become unusually valuable when combined with good coding ability). Almost every one I've done has been a rehash of data structu res and algorithms along with a few other technical topics. Someone who is an excellent writer and merely a good programmer is likely to be screened out. If you combine skills, you're treading a path that people don't really hire for, mainly because they can't conceive of it, and it doesn't fit into the silos. That's fine. You need to accept that the google-style software engineering path probably isn't for you. But you do need to have more initiative. Companies that post jobs tend not to look for these combinations. However, if you have personal initiative, you can often build this role within a company (or on your own), and the career path it opens up can be very satisfying.
  - richard_g 6y ago
    There may not be a test of writing abilities in a job interview itself, but applying for the job is a test of writing abilities.
pizza234 6y ago
I respect Scott Adams for his comic, but his blog is (in my opinion) a bunch of mass-produced rhetoric-pseudo-rational ramblings¹, trading out quality for (a very large) quantity. Scott Adams is definitely not famous because "he is an ok graphic artist and has an ok humor". He's famous because his satire was fairly unique and very sharp. I think he's very talented in the humor department; in addition to his creating invention and sharp wit, very often his strips have two punchlines - in the middle and the last panel - which take twice as much effort as a "standard" comic strip. His drawing skill didn't/don't really matter, as a matter of fact, he wasn't particularly good at the beginning, and his style is generic and simple anyway. It's very unlikely that somebody with "he is an ok graphic artist and has an ok humor" will get his success just because of such qualities. ¹=A very ridicolous example of whom was when he was proving that Trump will be successful because, based on his observations, leaders who were great in the long term, typically had a rough start. Can't find the post.
- cpursley 6y ago
  I'm take a gander that your view about his blog is based on your pre-existing political leanings.
  - entropicdrifter 6y ago
    I mean... https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scott_Adams#Views_on_science_and_history https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scott_Adams#Views_on_science_a... The guy has a ton of crank views
    - ulucs 6y ago
      As if RationalWiki has any business calling people cranks
      - Delk 6y ago
        Has it always been that way? I seem to remember RationalWiki (or perhaps some other similar site?) as an occasionally snarky but generally high-quality wiki on rationality, fallacies, science vs. pseudoscience, the logical or other mistakes in arguments that have been given for quackery, etc. Nowadays it seems like a lot of the content is just about bashing people who have expressed less-than-greatly argued opinions, with some kind of a special target drawn on conservatives. I mean, you can also do that and not be wrong, but that's entirely different than (mostly) dispassionately documenting things, even if while doing the latter you'd be somewhat poignant. Either the content seemed to have a different tone ~10 years ago, or I remember wrong.

ZainRiz 6y ago

+1 And as patio11 says, combining engineering with good writing skills makes it very easy to be one of the top with your combined skills I’ve been trying to lean more into that advice the past couple months by publishing on my blog :) Surprisingly enough, just this morning I woke up to realize someone had shared an article I wrote and it was on the HN front page! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24251068#24262190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24251068#24262190

non-entity 6y ago
But does being in the top of those combined skills command top pay?
- infermore 6y ago
  I'm pretty sure it does, but I'm also pretty sure it's okay if it doesn't.
- ansible 6y ago
  If you're at the level where you can write a decent book on programming or something... that means guaranteed job offers for the rest of your career. Like, I haven't seen Raymond Chen's resume, but if he calls me up tomorrow looking for a job, I'll find something for him, even if we're not hiring. Ditto for Steve Klabnik, Carol Nichols, and some other people in the Rust community.
- julianlam 6y ago
  Depends what those two or more skills are. You might be a top flight musical basket weaver but that won't pay too well.
  - rimjongun 6y ago
    You make me music baskets and I’ll find a way to make it pay well.
- ZainRiz 6y ago
  You don't need to get paid directly for those skills to be valuable. I started brushing up on my writing skills since at the higher levels of engineering (and prob all other fields) communicating your ideas more effectively will open up way more opportunities down the line. Some of those may have monetary rewards. But the reward can be something else as well
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Engineering and writing/communication/organization is basically the definition of a tech lead. If you find me a good engineer with good communications skills, I'll get you a mid-6-figure salary no question.
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  According to legend, a new student of Euclid’s once asked him, “What shall I get by learning these things?” In reply, Euclid beckoned his slave and told him, “Give him a coin, since he must make gain out of what he learns.”
mywittyname 6y ago
I'm not convinced that writing and engineering are a rare, yet sought-after combination. I'm a pretty good writer; good enough that I had several professors in college asked me to use my work as examples for future classes. It's been recognized by my peers and managers. Not much has ever really come from it. I've been given opportunities to draft "bad news" copy to be sent to clients, and I'm the point person for editing design documentation. But none of these are really roles of prestige. If anything, I'm really seen as being the person responsible for the grunt work that people don't generally enjoy doing.
- gonzo41 6y ago
  Just ask for more money for doing it then. Or push to not do it. If you end up not doing it then your saved the work. IF they pay you money, you get the prestige.
- verall 6y ago
  I think you are underselling yourself. As far as I can tell, at a globally distributed engineering org, clear written communication is probably more important than the code you write, because it has more impact - it has an effect on how everyone else writes their code. It might come easily to you, but me and other people I know often draft emails and such 3-4 times, asking for proofreading from trusted friends. Yea, the proofreading for docs and writing client copies isn't fun, but the skills to do these well help all of your written communication immensely. Your org could be very different, but I feel like I am recognized in large part because I care about communicating, and put a lot of effort into clear emails and docs. Part of your recognition could be because you have great writing skills.
- ZainRiz 6y ago
  Ah, I see where you're coming from. The benefits don't accrue as much when you're writing material you've been told to write, especially when it's not something the recipient will be happy to receive. Those can be valuable learning experiences, but it's not harvest season yet. The value comes when you CHOOSE to compose messages meant to persuade YOUR peers and internal stake holders. Your skill with the pen gives you a voice, like a bard who can urge a crowd to action. What words do we associate with those kinds of people? Influence Leadership Writing can help get you there
geebee 6y ago
It is a great combo, but you need to have a lot of personal initiative to make it work. Here's the thing - the typical software engineer interview doesn't assess writing(or many other valuable traits that can become unusually valuable when combined with good coding ability). Almost every one I've done has been a rehash of data structu res and algorithms along with a few other technical topics. Someone who is an excellent writer and merely a good programmer is likely to be screened out. If you combine skills, you're treading a path that people don't really hire for, mainly because they can't conceive of it, and it doesn't fit into the silos. That's fine. You need to accept that the google-style software engineering path probably isn't for you. But you do need to have more initiative. Companies that post jobs tend not to look for these combinations. However, if you have personal initiative, you can often build this role within a company (or on your own), and the career path it opens up can be very satisfying.
- richard_g 6y ago
  There may not be a test of writing abilities in a job interview itself, but applying for the job is a test of writing abilities.

pizza234 6y ago

I respect Scott Adams for his comic, but his blog is (in my opinion) a bunch of mass-produced rhetoric-pseudo-rational ramblings¹, trading out quality for (a very large) quantity. Scott Adams is definitely not famous because "he is an ok graphic artist and has an ok humor". He's famous because his satire was fairly unique and very sharp. I think he's very talented in the humor department; in addition to his creating invention and sharp wit, very often his strips have two punchlines - in the middle and the last panel - which take twice as much effort as a "standard" comic strip. His drawing skill didn't/don't really matter, as a matter of fact, he wasn't particularly good at the beginning, and his style is generic and simple anyway. It's very unlikely that somebody with "he is an ok graphic artist and has an ok humor" will get his success just because of such qualities. ¹=A very ridicolous example of whom was when he was proving that Trump will be successful because, based on his observations, leaders who were great in the long term, typically had a rough start. Can't find the post.

cpursley 6y ago
I'm take a gander that your view about his blog is based on your pre-existing political leanings.
- entropicdrifter 6y ago
  I mean... https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scott_Adams#Views_on_science_and_history https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scott_Adams#Views_on_science_a... The guy has a ton of crank views
  - ulucs 6y ago
    As if RationalWiki has any business calling people cranks
    - Delk 6y ago
      Has it always been that way? I seem to remember RationalWiki (or perhaps some other similar site?) as an occasionally snarky but generally high-quality wiki on rationality, fallacies, science vs. pseudoscience, the logical or other mistakes in arguments that have been given for quackery, etc. Nowadays it seems like a lot of the content is just about bashing people who have expressed less-than-greatly argued opinions, with some kind of a special target drawn on conservatives. I mean, you can also do that and not be wrong, but that's entirely different than (mostly) dispassionately documenting things, even if while doing the latter you'd be somewhat poignant. Either the content seemed to have a different tone ~10 years ago, or I remember wrong.