6 ms·

> Any reasonably complex interface is essentially a game whether it's a music composition app, simulator, MMO or even a basic form. I've been out of the game d

> Any reasonably complex interface is essentially a game whether it's a music composition app, simulator, MMO or even a basic form. I've been out of the game development arena for a while, but I can't help but pause here. Are people really writing DAWs and big desktop app interfaces in Unity? The last time I played with a game engine, I would have said UI was its weakest aspect. Clunky, slow controls, visually unappealing, and certainly lacking in accessibility. Without researching more, I would feel pretty confident placing a bet that if I pointed JAWS at a Unity Window, it would say "Game Window" and that's about it. Windows accessibility hooks and tab navigation certainly didn't work out of the box, and I would say that is bare minimum for a UI toolkit. So while it's valid that Unity is a beast and game engines will eat the world for games, I have a really hard time taking them seriously for UI-driven application development.

1f60c 6y ago
I think GP meant that a lot of patterns that are common in game dev could also be applied to other kinds of software.
- akersten 6y ago
  It doesn't read that way to me, since it ends with "can't wait to buy shares" and is sandwiched between other examples of how Unity brings them joy - implying Unity is the platform on which all of these things will be built. I guess OP can clarify if they desire, and my comment still stands regarding Unity's UI toolkit.
panopticon 6y ago
According to Bloomberg[0], non-gaming clients make up 10% of Unity's business. > [Unity] helps Volkswagen AG train employees, was used by filmmakers to shoot the recent “Lion King” movie and by the Hong Kong International Airport to simulate changes in passenger volume. I don't know enough about these domains to say whether it's a good (or bad) idea, but I've also heard of Unity being used for other kinds of modeling and simulations too (climatology, traffic, etc). [0]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-07/unity-technologies-aims-to-bring-video-game-tools-into-the-real-world https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-07/unity-tec...
- boarnoah 6y ago
  > Lion king I'm fairly sure this is incorrect. Unsure about Lion King specifically but all of the other recent Jon Favreau titles (The Mandalorian, The Jungle Book) have done virtual production with Unreal Engine.
  - panopticon 6y ago
    From Engadget[0]: > The workflow of The Lion King was vastly different to The Jungle Book. MPC worked on 'master scenes' in London with industry-standard tools such as Maya. It then developed an "asset management system" that could translate the scene into something that was compatible with Unity, a popular game engine. Also, this YouTube video[1] goes over the process in more detail. [0]: https://www.engadget.com/2019-07-29-lion-king-remake-vfx-mpc-interview.html https://www.engadget.com/2019-07-29-lion-king-remake-vfx-mpc... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCnayCnM6Zk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCnayCnM6Zk
    - boarnoah 6y ago
      Ah interesting, I guess it makes sense considering its a different workflow from the two titles I mentioned which were compositing people into CG backdrops. Thanks for the correction.
formalsystem 6y ago
This is an example of someone who has built a robotic simulator in Unity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvZgbB71yb8&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvZgbB71yb8&feature=youtu.be
risyachka 6y ago
For MVP you can't beat speed of development with Unity. You can create a complex UI with full logic in a matter of days.
boogies 6y ago
> Are people really writing DAWs and big desktop app interfaces in Unity? I’d love to know if Unity is made in Unity. The Godot game engine’s development environment is made in Godot (which is why it was able to be run in web browsers using WebAssembly https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23354286 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23354286).
- Tossrock 6y ago
  Unity is not really made in Unity - the core engine is in C++ that is separate from the userland C# scripts. However, it uses the same UI library that's available to users (IMGUI, and being upgraded to UIToolkit), which makes it easy to extend.
sgustard 6y ago
Unity's homepage lists four industries they target and Games is only one of them. Seems clear they also want to sell into Manufacturing, Construction, Film, etc.
amirhirsch 6y ago
For quickly making a cross-platform mobile apps, it is definitely going to emerge as the new first choice. I've been burned so much by cross-platform issues trying to do anything complicated or graphical with phonegap/cordova/electron/react...
trynewideas 6y ago
> Are people really writing DAWs and big desktop app interfaces in Unity? Arguably the biggest non-game applications are in virtual cinematography, architectural visualization, non-game simulations, and immersive art installations. Most of those uses don't result in discrete "apps", though, they're just workflows within Unity designed to produce a specific type of output. One prominent example of a discrete pro app made from Unity, though, is Digital Monarch Media's filmmaking toolsuite, which is built on Unity.[1] But it fills some unusual hardware and interface needs that Unity is built, or has plugins, to provide (touchscreen interfaces, motion tracking, color grading). That said, I see non-game apps in the vein of content creation or productivity pop up more frequently now in Godot development than Unity. There are some proof-of-concepts, like the Godello[2] Trello clone that was posted here a while back, but more useful examples are Pixelorama[3], an open-source pixel-art editor built with Godot, and Heavypaint[4], a painting/sketching app. [1] https://www.vfxvoice.com/instant-feedback-expozure-expands-its-virtual-toolset/ https://www.vfxvoice.com/instant-feedback-expozure-expands-i... [2] https://github.com/alfredbaudisch/Godello https://github.com/alfredbaudisch/Godello [3] https://orama-interactive.itch.io/pixelorama https://orama-interactive.itch.io/pixelorama [4] http://www.heavypoly.com/heavypaint http://www.heavypoly.com/heavypaint
- formalsystem 6y ago
  Just wanted to say thank you for the excellent resources
- jarrell_mark 6y ago
  Godot is written in Godot. Anything you see in its UI can be used by Godot developers.
  - PinkMilkshake 6y ago
    Which can be abused in fun ways! https://twitter.com/yafd/status/1294719274657787904 https://twitter.com/yafd/status/1294719274657787904
Tossrock 6y ago
I've made a node-editor based UI heavy application for real-time texture synthesis in Unity[0], for which it is quite good. Although I agree that it doesn't integrate platform native UI patterns well. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xU4Dtp7cV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xU4Dtp7cV8
specialist 6y ago
"...I have a really hard time taking them seriously for UI-driven application development." It's been a long time since I've done serious UI work, so am not aware of the latest grievances. But it'd be great if stock UI frameworks were more like game (simulation) engines. Scene graphs, composition, event loops, command objects, etc. Just like sufficiently complex C programs become buggy implementations of LISP, interesting UIs eventually recreate a poorly conceived and terribly implemented simulation engine.
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  Potential advantage to Unity is it was developed from the ground up to do all that. Unlike the browser.
  - fxtentacle 6y ago
    Potential advantage to using a browser is that it actually works. Unlike Unity. But in the end, Electron or Unity doesn't matter, both are equally bloated.
    - Gibbon1 6y ago
      Problem with the browser is it's optimized around countering network latency and security issues. All those optimizations are essentially worthless when running a native application.
tomc1985 6y ago
Yes, I guess. I was installing an app called Rekordbox (its a library manager and a performance app for digital DJ hardware on the Pioneer DJ platform) and, sure enough, spotted a bunch of Unity DLLs being copied in the setup program.
mikhailfranco 6y ago
Labster uses Unity to simulate lab work for science students: https://www.labster.com/ https://www.labster.com/ Unity's co-founder David Helgason is an investor in Labster: https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/06/virtual-science-lab-startup-labster-bags-10m/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/06/virtual-science-lab-startu...
fxtentacle 6y ago
Agree. Unity has rather verbose graphs to describe GUIs, so it is more like XAML, which I guess works, but isn't exactly elegant. And no, Unity doesn't have any accessibility by default. Plus it tends to have a few ms of mouse cursor lag, which can be pretty infuriating to power users.

1f60c 6y ago

I think GP meant that a lot of patterns that are common in game dev could also be applied to other kinds of software.

akersten 6y ago
It doesn't read that way to me, since it ends with "can't wait to buy shares" and is sandwiched between other examples of how Unity brings them joy - implying Unity is the platform on which all of these things will be built. I guess OP can clarify if they desire, and my comment still stands regarding Unity's UI toolkit.

panopticon 6y ago

According to Bloomberg[0], non-gaming clients make up 10% of Unity's business. > [Unity] helps Volkswagen AG train employees, was used by filmmakers to shoot the recent “Lion King” movie and by the Hong Kong International Airport to simulate changes in passenger volume. I don't know enough about these domains to say whether it's a good (or bad) idea, but I've also heard of Unity being used for other kinds of modeling and simulations too (climatology, traffic, etc). [0]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-07/unity-technologies-aims-to-bring-video-game-tools-into-the-real-world https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-07/unity-tec...

boarnoah 6y ago
> Lion king I'm fairly sure this is incorrect. Unsure about Lion King specifically but all of the other recent Jon Favreau titles (The Mandalorian, The Jungle Book) have done virtual production with Unreal Engine.
- panopticon 6y ago
  From Engadget[0]: > The workflow of The Lion King was vastly different to The Jungle Book. MPC worked on 'master scenes' in London with industry-standard tools such as Maya. It then developed an "asset management system" that could translate the scene into something that was compatible with Unity, a popular game engine. Also, this YouTube video[1] goes over the process in more detail. [0]: https://www.engadget.com/2019-07-29-lion-king-remake-vfx-mpc-interview.html https://www.engadget.com/2019-07-29-lion-king-remake-vfx-mpc... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCnayCnM6Zk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCnayCnM6Zk
  - boarnoah 6y ago
    Ah interesting, I guess it makes sense considering its a different workflow from the two titles I mentioned which were compositing people into CG backdrops. Thanks for the correction.

formalsystem 6y ago

This is an example of someone who has built a robotic simulator in Unity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvZgbB71yb8&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvZgbB71yb8&feature=youtu.be

risyachka 6y ago

For MVP you can't beat speed of development with Unity. You can create a complex UI with full logic in a matter of days.

boogies 6y ago

> Are people really writing DAWs and big desktop app interfaces in Unity? I’d love to know if Unity is made in Unity. The Godot game engine’s development environment is made in Godot (which is why it was able to be run in web browsers using WebAssembly https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23354286 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23354286).

Tossrock 6y ago
Unity is not really made in Unity - the core engine is in C++ that is separate from the userland C# scripts. However, it uses the same UI library that's available to users (IMGUI, and being upgraded to UIToolkit), which makes it easy to extend.

sgustard 6y ago

Unity's homepage lists four industries they target and Games is only one of them. Seems clear they also want to sell into Manufacturing, Construction, Film, etc.

amirhirsch 6y ago

For quickly making a cross-platform mobile apps, it is definitely going to emerge as the new first choice. I've been burned so much by cross-platform issues trying to do anything complicated or graphical with phonegap/cordova/electron/react...

trynewideas 6y ago

> Are people really writing DAWs and big desktop app interfaces in Unity? Arguably the biggest non-game applications are in virtual cinematography, architectural visualization, non-game simulations, and immersive art installations. Most of those uses don't result in discrete "apps", though, they're just workflows within Unity designed to produce a specific type of output. One prominent example of a discrete pro app made from Unity, though, is Digital Monarch Media's filmmaking toolsuite, which is built on Unity.[1] But it fills some unusual hardware and interface needs that Unity is built, or has plugins, to provide (touchscreen interfaces, motion tracking, color grading). That said, I see non-game apps in the vein of content creation or productivity pop up more frequently now in Godot development than Unity. There are some proof-of-concepts, like the Godello[2] Trello clone that was posted here a while back, but more useful examples are Pixelorama[3], an open-source pixel-art editor built with Godot, and Heavypaint[4], a painting/sketching app. [1] https://www.vfxvoice.com/instant-feedback-expozure-expands-its-virtual-toolset/ https://www.vfxvoice.com/instant-feedback-expozure-expands-i... [2] https://github.com/alfredbaudisch/Godello https://github.com/alfredbaudisch/Godello [3] https://orama-interactive.itch.io/pixelorama https://orama-interactive.itch.io/pixelorama [4] http://www.heavypoly.com/heavypaint http://www.heavypoly.com/heavypaint

formalsystem 6y ago
Just wanted to say thank you for the excellent resources
jarrell_mark 6y ago
Godot is written in Godot. Anything you see in its UI can be used by Godot developers.
- PinkMilkshake 6y ago
  Which can be abused in fun ways! https://twitter.com/yafd/status/1294719274657787904 https://twitter.com/yafd/status/1294719274657787904

Tossrock 6y ago

I've made a node-editor based UI heavy application for real-time texture synthesis in Unity[0], for which it is quite good. Although I agree that it doesn't integrate platform native UI patterns well. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xU4Dtp7cV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xU4Dtp7cV8

specialist 6y ago

"...I have a really hard time taking them seriously for UI-driven application development." It's been a long time since I've done serious UI work, so am not aware of the latest grievances. But it'd be great if stock UI frameworks were more like game (simulation) engines. Scene graphs, composition, event loops, command objects, etc. Just like sufficiently complex C programs become buggy implementations of LISP, interesting UIs eventually recreate a poorly conceived and terribly implemented simulation engine.

Gibbon1 6y ago
Potential advantage to Unity is it was developed from the ground up to do all that. Unlike the browser.
- fxtentacle 6y ago
  Potential advantage to using a browser is that it actually works. Unlike Unity. But in the end, Electron or Unity doesn't matter, both are equally bloated.
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    Problem with the browser is it's optimized around countering network latency and security issues. All those optimizations are essentially worthless when running a native application.

tomc1985 6y ago

Yes, I guess. I was installing an app called Rekordbox (its a library manager and a performance app for digital DJ hardware on the Pioneer DJ platform) and, sure enough, spotted a bunch of Unity DLLs being copied in the setup program.

mikhailfranco 6y ago

Labster uses Unity to simulate lab work for science students: https://www.labster.com/ https://www.labster.com/ Unity's co-founder David Helgason is an investor in Labster: https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/06/virtual-science-lab-startup-labster-bags-10m/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/06/virtual-science-lab-startu...

fxtentacle 6y ago

Agree. Unity has rather verbose graphs to describe GUIs, so it is more like XAML, which I guess works, but isn't exactly elegant. And no, Unity doesn't have any accessibility by default. Plus it tends to have a few ms of mouse cursor lag, which can be pretty infuriating to power users.