4 ms·

41% (the divorce rate for first marriages), while technically a minority, is still quite a lot of people. I wouldn't go so far as to say "not many" are doing it

41% (the divorce rate for first marriages), while technically a minority, is still quite a lot of people. I wouldn't go so far as to say "not many" are doing it wrong.

eternalban 6y ago
A cursory review of cultural and “critical” output of the past few decades shows a consistent onslaught on the institution of marriage. While difficult to quantify, it seems reasonable to consider the significant (if not critical) impact of these factors on the erosion of the institution of marriage.
- Godel_unicode 6y ago
  I think what has had a far larger impact on the divorce rate has been the fact that women now have choices. They frequently have their own careers and finances, which makes it much easier for them to get out of bad marriages. You could view this as making it easier to quit, or as making it easier to escape abuse (I suspect it's a little bit of both), but I think that the effect of feminism and (greater) equality in the workforce is a more significant contributor to the divorce rate than any cultural attacks on the institution of marriage. Edit: it's less immediately obvious, but I think that feminism and equality have also had the same liberating effect on men. Marriages can be just as emotionally abusive for men, and if your wife has her own career you're less likely to be ostracized for "kicking her to the curb", which makes leaving a bad marriage easier. Long term, this can strengthen marriages. If you know they can leave, you'll likely work harder to make them want to stay.
  - eternalban 6y ago
    Of course this was a significant factor. But even your reposte here is symptomatic of the fact that the society at large was not offered a 'positive' development of the institution of marriage in context of social and financial liberation of women. It's been decades of specifically highlighting the 'family' as a 'problematic construct'.
- goatlover 6y ago
  Or cultural norms change over time. Like the institution of marriage in the West, which is now based on romantic feelings and nuclear families. Whereas in the past it was for political, financial or religious reasons, with there being extended family around in the context of living in the same village for life. To quote Paul Atreides when he became fed up with Fremen customs, "Ways change!".
  - eternalban 6y ago
    I can quote from I Ching [Book of Changes] regarding change as the invariant element. This change was ideologically driven by an elite subset of society. Certainly not an organic development, in my opinion. [p.s. Did we read the same Frank Herbert? My Frank Herbert highlighted the fact that "the ways" in Arakis were influenced by an occult group called the Bene Gesserit ..] [p.s.s.: https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Missionaria_Protectiva https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Missionaria_Protectiva -- point being societal 'change' is almost always subject to organized control, internal or external.]

41% (the divorce rate for first marriages), while technically a minority, is still quite a lot of people. I wouldn't go so far as to say "not many" are doing it wrong.

eternalban 6y ago

A cursory review of cultural and “critical” output of the past few decades shows a consistent onslaught on the institution of marriage. While difficult to quantify, it seems reasonable to consider the significant (if not critical) impact of these factors on the erosion of the institution of marriage.

Godel_unicode 6y ago
I think what has had a far larger impact on the divorce rate has been the fact that women now have choices. They frequently have their own careers and finances, which makes it much easier for them to get out of bad marriages. You could view this as making it easier to quit, or as making it easier to escape abuse (I suspect it's a little bit of both), but I think that the effect of feminism and (greater) equality in the workforce is a more significant contributor to the divorce rate than any cultural attacks on the institution of marriage. Edit: it's less immediately obvious, but I think that feminism and equality have also had the same liberating effect on men. Marriages can be just as emotionally abusive for men, and if your wife has her own career you're less likely to be ostracized for "kicking her to the curb", which makes leaving a bad marriage easier. Long term, this can strengthen marriages. If you know they can leave, you'll likely work harder to make them want to stay.
- eternalban 6y ago
  Of course this was a significant factor. But even your reposte here is symptomatic of the fact that the society at large was not offered a 'positive' development of the institution of marriage in context of social and financial liberation of women. It's been decades of specifically highlighting the 'family' as a 'problematic construct'.
goatlover 6y ago
Or cultural norms change over time. Like the institution of marriage in the West, which is now based on romantic feelings and nuclear families. Whereas in the past it was for political, financial or religious reasons, with there being extended family around in the context of living in the same village for life. To quote Paul Atreides when he became fed up with Fremen customs, "Ways change!".
- eternalban 6y ago
  I can quote from I Ching [Book of Changes] regarding change as the invariant element. This change was ideologically driven by an elite subset of society. Certainly not an organic development, in my opinion. [p.s. Did we read the same Frank Herbert? My Frank Herbert highlighted the fact that "the ways" in Arakis were influenced by an occult group called the Bene Gesserit ..] [p.s.s.: https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Missionaria_Protectiva https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Missionaria_Protectiva -- point being societal 'change' is almost always subject to organized control, internal or external.]